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 Post subject: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:14 pm 
God

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Not original to me but I read a blog that said exmos's often turned to no god /atheism because the morg teaches the eternal nature of matter - so when existence of matter has no god to create it, then one can take god out of the religion equation and simply believe big bang, evolution, survival of the fittest and that is what many ex-mo's do even though they may not understand why they became godless.

by the way how can matter be outside some force that caused it- i believe in God and ex-nihlio?/from nothing did the Creator bring the universe into existence- i can take the big bang theory if God caused it. :idea:

anyone say why they became atheist for that or another reason?

k


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Well, I obviously can't speak for other exmo's, but I will tell you this. Go to:

www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal

and

www.reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie

And that goes a long way to explain why I, as a person who has eyeballs, can come to the conclusion that we're no different than any other creature on this earth, and life itself is inherently meaningless unless you consider survival of the fittest, meanest, or most brutal is somehow meaningful beyond my current understanding of life.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:59 pm 
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kairos wrote:
Not original to me but I read a blog that said exmos's often turned to no god /atheism because the morg teaches the eternal nature of matter - so when existence of matter has no god to create it, then one can take god out of the religion equation and simply believe big bang, evolution, survival of the fittest and that is what many ex-mo's do even though they may not understand why they became godless.

by the way how can matter be outside some force that caused it- i believe in God and ex-nihlio?/from nothing did the Creator bring the universe into existence- i can take the big bang theory if God caused it. :idea:

anyone say why they became atheist for that or another reason?

k



It doesn't explain it for me. I just think that once one comes to realize they have been fed lies all ones life...nothing and I mean absolutely nothing is taken at face value any longer. Every claim dependent on super magical non existent powers is no longer credible to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:39 pm 
Savior (mortal ministry)
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Fool me once...


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Fool me once...

Yeah - that and I would imagine that atheism provides a soft spot to land in - and live in. But what do I know, I'm not an exM0 or an atheist.

Peace,
Ceeboo


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:12 pm 
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I disagree that that the cause has anything to do with matter (or creation and evolution to start with).

1. The only true church on the face of the earth.
2. Every member a prophet.
3. Jesus is the Christ.
4. Avoid even the appearance of evil, the fear runs deep.

When 1 and 2 start to fall apart, I clung tightly on 3 and 4. Even breaking the indoctrination of wearing the G's took forever. The fear/waiting for the other shoe to drop (gospel of prosperity) took forever to fade, which allowed the doors to open for the study of things outside the church approved material.

After a while, 3 became as 1 where the failure of both, in combination with the study of outside material, becomes apparent.

If the almighty Mormon God falls, all gods eventually fall. Its a matter of bursting out of the indoctrinated world view.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:45 pm 
Holy Ghost

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duplicate :confused:


Last edited by deacon blues on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:45 pm 
Holy Ghost

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I think part of the reason is that the Church has a narrow view of Christianity. When one is taught the "Atonement theory", and the "Jesus's physical conception by Eloheim" among other things, one forgets that there are many Christians who are led more by Jesus's teachings about love, mercy, and sacrifice. I believe Unitarians can be good Christians, but most Mormons are more like the Baptists and other evangelical, "One Way" literalists. But, I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:52 pm 
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I can't find the statistics now, but from what I remember the lifetime statistics for Mormons are as follows:

70% remain LDS
15% become atheist/agnostic
15% switch to a different religion

This was a few years ago, so I have no idea if the numbers are the same now.

I think it seems like all become atheists because most in this neck of the woods or in the bloggernacle go that route. Since people tend to go to locations on the internet they agree with, and since you are here, you likely see most ex-Mos go atheist. I'm guessing if you went other places you would see more continue in some kind of faith.

You can see this when John Dehlin interviewed Sandra Tanner. He asked her why most ex-Mos are atheist. She replied that the ones she works with tend to stay religious. I believe both were making accurate observations and telling the truth, they are just observing different populations of ex-Mos.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:59 pm 
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I think this topic often comes up as a way of demeaning Mormonism, probably well-intentioned as a passive way of suggesting to the post-Mormon turned atheist that their atheist position is just an extension of their Mormon past. Which in turn is possibly intended to suggest there are still vestiges of Mormonism that should be shed to get to the real truth where one will discover the true God that Mormonism interferes with us knowing.

Perhaps there is more to it than this, but that's how it comes across to me. Worldviews being such a mixed bag of rationally obtained positions scattered liberally amongst the much more significant background of beliefs that are outside the scope of our reasoning minds to accurately and reasonably comprehend, I've moved on from caring about a person's particular worldview and am much more concerned with a person's degree of certitude regarding the preeminence theirs should take in the world, how a person tends to act when confronting information that is new or possibly contradictory to their worldview, and if it has implications beyond their own lives for society that I find concerning. Otherwise, I have promises to keep. And (hopefully) miles to go before I sleep.

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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:27 pm 
Savior (mortal ministry)
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Ceeboo wrote:
Yeah - that and I would imagine that atheism provides a soft spot to land in - and live in. But what do I know, I'm not an exM0 or an atheist.

Peace,
Ceeboo

For the record, I'm not an atheist either. I think atheism goes to the opposite extreme and tends to engage in TBM-like thinking for a belief in the nonexistence of god. For examples see Philo and historical Jesus debates. Atheists "know" god doesn't exist like Mormons "know" the church is true.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:52 pm 
God

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I'd think you'd want data that could establish the rate at which LDS apostates are becoming atheists compared against the rate at which is this occurring from people who are losing faith in other religions in America. While the population of atheists is relatively low, it is growing rapidly in America and presumably atheists numbers are increasing at least impart because of people disillusioned with their faith.

I don't think that data exists.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:52 pm 
God

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Water Dog wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:
Yeah - that and I would imagine that atheism provides a soft spot to land in - and live in. But what do I know, I'm not an exM0 or an atheist.

Peace,
Ceeboo

For the record, I'm not an atheist either. I think atheism goes to the opposite extreme and tends to engage in TBM-like thinking for a belief in the nonexistence of god. For examples see Philo and historical Jesus debates. Atheists "know" god doesn't exist like Mormons "know" the church is true.


Atheism is rejection of belief in gods. It doesn't require one to claim they know gods do not exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:
Yeah - that and I would imagine that atheism provides a soft spot to land in - and live in. But what do I know, I'm not an exM0 or an atheist.

Peace,
Ceeboo

For the record, I'm not an atheist either. I think atheism goes to the opposite extreme and tends to engage in TBM-like thinking for a belief in the nonexistence of god. For examples see Philo and historical Jesus debates. Atheists "know" god doesn't exist like Mormons "know" the church is true.


Well, it'd be nice if we can define what we're supposedly rejecting before we're accused of being extremists. For example, I'm fairly confident an uber-hominid occupying a planet near a star called Kolob doesn't exist. However, if you want to claim that a God or gods exist outside of our functional reality then I just have to shrug my shoulders because how do you argue against something like that?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Atheists "know" god doesn't exist like Mormons "know" the church is true.

Geez. Not this BS again.

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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:45 pm 
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because there is no reason to believe in a God. For many personal evidence was the main reason, so without personal evidence you are left with nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 pm 
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By the way, I’m betting that a lot of people who lose faith in their religion don’t turn around and join another one.

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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:08 pm 
God

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
However, if you want to claim that a God or gods exist outside of our functional reality then I just have to shrug my shoulders because how do you argue against something like that?

- Doc


There's a few ways. The two most important types of atheological argument for the nonexistence of gods are:

1) The definition of a god is incoherent and it is necessarily true that incoherent things cannot exist.

and

2) It's actually reasonable to think things do not exist when you note the lack of evidence for them and the body of evidence that indicates they are products of human imagination. Such things are improbable to exist and the statement "X does not exist" is just another way of saying, "the likelihood X does not exist is sufficiently high that one can be confident in it."

A lot goes into these type of arguments and my one or two sentence summary might sell them short in your mind. I disagree with both, but they are probably have more merit than you think.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:41 pm 
Savior (mortal ministry)
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We could get into the definition debates, conflating agnosticism with atheism, belief vs lack of belief vs belief in a negative, which is always how this tedious conversation goes. For me it usually just boils down to those identifying as "atheists" being arrogant pricks.


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Aristotle Smith wrote:
I think it seems like all become atheists because most in this neck of the woods or in the bloggernacle go that route. Since people tend to go to locations on the internet they agree with, and since you are here, you likely see most ex-Mos go atheist. I'm guessing if you went other places you would see more continue in some kind of faith.

You can see this when John Dehlin interviewed Sandra Tanner. He asked her why most ex-Mos are atheist. She replied that the ones she works with tend to stay religious. I believe both were making accurate observations and telling the truth, they are just observing different populations of ex-Mos.


Lynn Wilder, back in the day, was a fairly well known individual...professor at BYU...that left the church with her family and found a home within one of the flavors of Christianity.

http://christiannews.net/2013/10/23/for ... istianity/

She obviously doesn't post here...as far as I know. :smile: So it's different strokes for different folks. The ex-mormons on this board are mostly of a similar stripe, except for a few exceptions. Lynn Wilder is more likely to hang out at a Christian related board with other like minded folks.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Why ExMos's turn atheist!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:56 am 
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Asking for convincing evidence is so very arrogant.

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