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 Post subject: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obituary
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:47 am 
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Justin United Kingdom 4 minutes ago
Wow, so you are taking a lifetime of humanitarian service (billions of dollars of aid under Monson) and just throwing it out the window and instead are publishing a hit piece against a church's policies disguised as an obituary. Your contempt for the LDS church is obvious.


We're losing the battle with believers when they continue to believe despite all of the conflicting facts, that the church donates billions of dollars in aid. Now had this poster stated billions invested in a down town mall I wouldn't have had any issue...but to state billions in aid when even the church via Dallin Oaks has acknowledged that the church has merely donated 40 million a year in aid, well then the church is getting their intended bang for their buck. They have purchased a false perception within their ranks that they are a grand world wide humanitarian giver of billions in aid by only spending a few million dollars actually being donated. Now that's getting a return. At least with its members, the church is winning.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:57 am 
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Justin is in for a bit of a shock....

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:39 pm 
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This is why the church will not release financial records or become financially transparent. They are willing to sacrifice the few "wavering" members who leave because of this issue, rather than risk losing a whole bunch of the faithful if they ever found out the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:50 pm 
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cwald wrote:
This is why the church will not release financial records or become financially transparent. They are willing to sacrifice the few "wavering" members who leave because of this issue, rather than risk losing a whole bunch of the faithful if they ever found out the truth.

I believe full financial disclosure would cause more shelves to break than anything else the church could do. I believe it would be a shock to many members sacrifice 10 percent plus of they income along with participating in "cost cutting" efforts like janitorial work to really see where their money really goes.


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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:53 pm 
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I would venture to say that the majority who truly STUDY Mormonism end up leaving the Church if they can do it without familial or financial damage. The facts are too damning to continue to believe in it.

The poster "Justin" is representative of many people still in the Church, both young and old. They don't study. They parrot talking points, cliches and rumors instead, to the point that they simply stop thinking beyond their limited view. In other words, they get stuck in stupid. I've had to let go of those types in my life to maintain my peace.


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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:11 am 
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GameOver wrote:
I would venture to say that the majority who truly STUDY Mormonism end up leaving the Church if they can do it without familial or financial damage. The facts are too damning to continue to believe in it.

The poster "Justin" is representative of many people still in the Church, both young and old. They don't study. They parrot talking points, cliches and rumors instead, to the point that they simply stop thinking beyond their limited view. In other words, they get stuck in stupid. I've had to let go of those types in my life to maintain my peace.

How many people really study their religion? Ironically, the LDS Church actually encourages more study than other denominations.

Most Catholics, Protestant, and other Christian denomination members who I have come into contact with have a very tacit understanding of the basics and parrot what they were taught by their parents and/or Sunday School Class.

Since Mormonism is more of a lifestyle like Judaism, congregants can become more in depth students. But, even then, their references normally don’t venture too far past LDS authors that are Church approved.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:30 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
How many people really study their religion? Ironically, the LDS Church actually encourages more study than other denominations.

I disagree.

What the LDS church encourages is reading and it actively discourages studying.

Many LDS can quote or paraphrase scriptures with ease. Few can give an in depth summary of the documentary hypothesis.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:34 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:
How many people really study their religion? Ironically, the LDS Church actually encourages more study than other denominations.

I disagree.

What the LDS church encourages is reading and it actively discourages studying.

Many LDS can quote or paraphrase scriptures with ease. Few can give an in depth summary of the documentary hypothesis.

I didn’t mean studying of outside sources. And I would say that the type of study that is encouraged is very guided, faith promoting types of study that always show the Church in the best possible light.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:40 am 
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Ha:

https://www.change.org/p/new-york-times ... n-obituary

Quote:
The New York Times recently wrote an obituary of Thomas S Monson, formerly President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Instead of highlighting the positive aspects of his life, or a neutral statement about the facts of his life, they decided to attack and disparage his character and used his obituary as a political statement against him and the Church as a whole and tweeted a click-bait headline to attack even further.

Fidel Castro and others have had more neutral obituaries which shows this as either a direct attack or a complete misunderstanding of religions or religious people. Would they write similar scathing remarks about the Pope?

We recognize that all people, including the New York Times and its authors, have the right to free speech and free press. However, an obituary should not be used as a political platform.

We are asking that the New York Times formally apologize for this bias in reporting and present an honest, neutral, and balanced obituary.



What you can do:

Sign the petition and share with friends

Write the New York Times via Twitter, Facebook, E-mail, or other means asking that they rewrite the obituary

If you subscribe to New York Times, cancel your subscription or contact them with an intention of canceling

Previous New York Times obituaries for religious leaders:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/us/b ... at-90.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/02/inter ... ublic.html

Disclaimer: This is not sponsored or supported by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints


I'll remember this next time a Mormon wants to say Mormons are apolitical, or don't believe in retribution. Seems to me they're trying to hurt the New York Times's bottom line.

Ok.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:57 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I'll remember this next time a Mormon wants to say Mormons are apolitical, or don't believe in retribution. Seems to me they're trying to hurt the New York Times's bottom line.

Ok.

- Doc

I would be willing to sign the petition if someone would point out what the New York Times got wrong. Or does "fair and balanced" mean something different when it comes to Monson?

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Wow, I finally read it. Is this really the cause of a hubbub of 20k+ signatures? Good grief. It is pretty good, with the expected summary but also personal details I hadn't heard and a rather rounded perspective of his life. Well done.

Signers should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps they should spend that signature on the petition against sexually-oriented bishop interviews of minors. Change your church first, if you want to change how people perceive you.


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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Meadowchik wrote:
Wow, I finally read it. Is this really the cause of a hubbub of 20k+ signatures? Good grief. It is pretty good, with the expected summary but also personal details I hadn't heard and a rather rounded perspective of his life. Well done.

Signers should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps they should spend that signature on the petition against sexually-oriented bishop interviews of minors. Change your church first, if you want to change how people perceive you.


The biggest indictment against the New York Times is the comparison between their Monson obituary and their write-ups on Fidel Castro and Hugh Hefner. It's obvious the writer of the Monson obit was more focused on being "fair and balanced" than those other two.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obituary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:35 pm 
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I read the obituary and was a little put off by the tone and emphasis. It just seemed jarring to me in contrast with obits of other public figures. I can understand the reaction to it by many faithful LDS folks.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obituary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:42 pm 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/obituaries/thomas-monson-dies.html

I don't think the newspaper needs to worry. The type of person who would petition the NYTimes to apologize for this obit is not the kind of person who would be subscribing to the Times in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:45 pm 
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It just has to sting many of the devout that they cited Kate Kelley in his obituary. Ouch.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obituary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:46 pm 
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The obit seemed like an accurate and truthful countdown of events and issues that occured under his watch. I would also add that the reporter, Robert McFadden, was either very well versed in the issues surrounding the church or spent a few minutes on the internet or has read the CES letter and the church doesn't like that.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:59 pm 
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It seemed fine to me and truthful as well. Maybe the positive could have been first instead of at the end. Otherwise, it isn't much to be upset about. Should it have been a fluff piece emphasizing Monson's humble superiority as the one true leader of the world? Maybe the faithful ought to be thankful because such opposition only shows how true the church really is? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Tator, I couldn't find anything that was not factually correct.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obitua
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:34 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
Quote:
Justin United Kingdom 4 minutes ago
Wow, so you are taking a lifetime of humanitarian service (billions of dollars of aid under Monson) and just throwing it out the window and instead are publishing a hit piece against a church's policies disguised as an obituary. Your contempt for the LDS church is obvious.


One for Justin...

Quote:
1.89 billion: The Church has provided $1.89 billion (year ending 2016) in humanitarian aid in 189 countries since 1985, the same year Monson was called into the First Presidency.

http://kutv.com/news/local/service-by-t ... ent-monson

For an organisation that receives an estimated $2 - $5 billion a year in donations, I’d say that’s a pretty pathetic track record under Monson.

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 Post subject: Re: One of the Reply Posts to Monson's New York Times Obituary
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:59 pm 
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The total 1,000 paying subscribers who are TBMs should just cancel their subscription.

I'm sure NYTimes is worried.

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