Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

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_Craig Paxton
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Craig Paxton »

Ceeboo wrote:In my mind - Monson passing (or any other high ranking Mormon passing for that matter) seems worthy of discussion in the sandbox that we play in here. After all, he was the President/Prophet of the LDS Church.

To suggest that his passing is no biggie - within the context of Mormonism - strikes be as a bizarre suggestion.

Not trying to be argumentative - Just my take.

Peace,
Ceeboo



Well kind of my point, outside of Mormonism, he was a relatively unknown. if not for the musical The Book of Mormon, where in his name was mentioned tens of thousands of times in song, the mention of his name would have garnered a response of ... "Who?"
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

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_Ceeboo
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hi Craig! :smile:

Craig Paxton wrote:Well kind of my point, outside of Mormonism, he was a relatively unknown.

I agree!
Outside of Mormonism - Mormonism is relatively unknown!

Sometimes these forums can create a loss of perspective. To over 99% of the current world population, Mormonism is a completely foreign concept.

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Mittens
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Mittens »

Symmachus wrote:Well, obviously no Mormon leader is important on the world stage but that seems like a pointless scale on a discussion board about Mormonism, and if we're going to apply it generally then nothing about Mormonism is important at all and we should go read Peter Abelard's Sic et Non. W

ithin LDS Mormonism, I'm not sure anyone would have noticed he'd died if they hadn't made a big announcement. On the other hand, Monson has been been making decisions in the first presidency and affecting policy since the early 80s as part of the Hinckley-Monson duo. All of the apostles and the first presidency have been chosen by one of them (Hinckley behind the scenes for the three most senior, called when Hinckley was the only cognizant member of the first presidency). That is only the most visible series of decisions. I have never known any Church but the Monson-Hinckley one.


Gordon Hinckley did say something correct :lol:

Mormons follow a different Christ then Christians...

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70) Gordon B Hinckley
We Look to Christ 2002 General Conference April

https://youtu.be/bkks2O6erGU

Actually Mormons don't even follow the Christ of The Book of Mormon

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;
2 Nephi 11
7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

1 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

2 Nephi 25: 29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

3 Nephi 11:
13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

3 Nephi 19:
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

2 Nephi 10:3
3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.

2 Nephi 25:29
And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
3 Nephi 9: 15 “Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.”

The Book of Helaman
Chapter 14:
12 And that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_Mittens
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Mittens »

Ceeboo wrote:Hi Craig! :smile:

Craig Paxton wrote:Well kind of my point, outside of Mormonism, he was a relatively unknown.

I agree!
Outside of Mormonism - Mormonism is relatively unknown!

Sometimes these forums can create a loss of perspective. To over 99% of the current world population, Mormonism is a completely foreign concept.

Peace,
Ceeboo


I agree, but I think Mormon leaders want it that way to conceal there teachings

The Iceberg Principle

Public Relation message of Mormonism is designed to attract the general public by offering "everlasting happiness and fulfillment." Then the missionaries are sent to ask, "do you want to know more about the gospel of Jesus Christ?" But just as the iceberg is about 10% visible to the eye, so the Mormon missionary lessons represent only a small, visible part of Mormon doctrine.

The missionary stratagem of withholding information is exposed by quoting page 9 of the "stake mission handbook" published by the Mormons:

"The standard missionary discussions, when they are taught by the spirit, lead investigators carefully and systematically to a knowledge of these truths. Other portions of the gospel should generally be left to instruction and study after baptism. The Lord has instructed ,'And of tenets thou shall not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea , even the Holy Ghost' ( Doctrine and Covenants 19:31 )

It is evident that Mormon authorities are commanding an inadequate representation of Mormonism by intentional concealment of their beliefs. this designed omission acts as a virtual fraud on the individual, manipulating then into the waters of baptism and membership into Mormonism. Mormon authorities feel justified in this deception because they believe they are "legal administrators" of the "only true church on the face of the earth" and, therefore, know what is best for all mankind.

After baptism, new members are scheduled into investigators' Sunday School class where the lessions are carefully presented. In this "Intial Indoctrination" phase they are taken through the "gospel Principle Manual." Mormon doctrine is explained in Christian-sounding words and phrases; differences in perspective are introduced gradually. When local LDS authorities decide they are ready,new members are moved into regular where they study "Doctrines in the Curriculum" from standard lesson manuals published at Mormon headquarters. Teachers are admonished not to deviate from lesson manuals or supplement with outside materials.

Within the first year most members will begin preparations to go to the temple. Now they are moved into a "temple preparation class" where emphasis is the doctrine of eternal progression and living the gospel law. Brief statements made about temple endowments include the same scanty information that is available to the public.. After a worthiness interview, Mormons go the temple to be sealed for time and all eternity.

Joseph Smith Jr. claimed that God reveals the "Deep and Hidden Mysteries of the Kingdom" in the temple ceremonies. In these rituals, patrons are bombarded with symbolism, rites, gestures, and a variety of stimuli which are entirely out of context with any religious experience they have heretofore known. They are assured that everything is uplifting and that their understanding of temple ritual will increase through participation and indirect proportion to their level of personal righteousness. Only the very inquisitive ever read the wide variety of historical data and revealing doctrinal statements written by earlier Mormon leaders. These "obscure Doctrines" are often dismissed with the statement, "The voice of the living prophet is more important to us than the voice of a dead prophet." Understanding varies from person to person depending on their level of personal study and exposure. This is true, even among those in leadership positions.

"end justifies the means" mentioned earlier psychology- an idea that all men must be led ' into the kingdom' gently, as they are ready. Mormons are taught to justify this practice with two scriptures: "line upon line, precept upon precept" (Isa. 28:10,18) and the concept of "milk to meat" ( 1 Peter 2:2; Heb 5:12) This interpretation is not scriptural. Jesus said there is nothing hidden (Matt. 10:26): but we gain understanding line upon line, as we are enabled by the Spirit to comprehend what has revealed.

The Lord said, "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth... (Isa 45:19) Deep and hidden things need to be brought to the light of God's word. ( 1 Cor 4:5; Eph 5:8)
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Symmachus wrote:
Monson has been been making decisions in the first presidency and affecting policy since the early 80s...


One of the major things Pres. Monson oversaw and was directly involved in was the production of the set of LDS Scriptures that we have been using for years now. Some would say that this played a large part in the general church membership becoming more literate in their scriptural knowledge and thus application of principles of discipleship, etc.

Regards,
MG
_Maksutov
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Maksutov »

Ceeboo wrote:Hi Craig! :smile:

Craig Paxton wrote:Well kind of my point, outside of Mormonism, he was a relatively unknown.

I agree!
Outside of Mormonism - Mormonism is relatively unknown!

Sometimes these forums can create a loss of perspective. To over 99% of the current world population, Mormonism is a completely foreign concept.

Peace,
Ceeboo


I take some comfort in that. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Mormonicious
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Mormonicious »

Revelation 2:17 . . give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Thank Google GOD for her son eBay, you can now have life eternal with laser engraving. . oh, and a seer stone and save 10% of your life's earning as a bonus. See you in Mormon man god Heaven Bitches!!. Bring on the Virgins
_I have a question
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _I have a question »

“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Gadianton
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _Gadianton »

According to mddb he wasn't that important. A couple posters pretended to be sad but mostly the conversation derailed into procedures on ordaining the next fossil.

I agree with symm that Monsoon was important in building the church in our time. However, it's tough to know how to take that question. One way to take it is in terms of how chapel Mormons conceive a prophet; a guy out there getting revelations and making prophecies and expounding on doctrines etc. and so in capacity as a prophet and seer, he may be in the negative.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_kairos
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Re: Just HOW important was Thomas Monson?

Post by _kairos »

Two points- for those who know is there something "funny" about that handshake between monson and george bush?

second-those screaming foul, on the comments section of the obit, at the tone/content of the obit , i bet a Kirkland anti-bank note, were put up to writing by some Mormon blog or church call for action.


just guessin,

k
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