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 Post subject: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:18 am 
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https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900006756/President-Thomas-S-Monson-16th-prophet-of-the-LDS-Church-dies-after-a-lifetime-spent-going-to-the-rescue.html

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More than half a century before he became the 16th president of the LDS Church, Thomas S. Monson, who died at 10:01 p.m. Tuesday at his Salt Lake City home at age 90, was an inexperienced, 23-year-old Mormon bishop with a distressing problem that would define his life.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:30 am 
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I saw that reddit had a link up to a Mo Newsroom article confirming it from that angle, but the site appears to be down.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-thomas-monson-passes-away

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:33 am 
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Huh.

I bet Dallin has his hopes up.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:37 am 
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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
Huh.

I bet Dallin has his hopes up.

Nelson is up next. But he is 92 or 93. Is Oaks up after Nelson?

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:03 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Polygamy-Porter wrote:
Huh.

I bet Dallin has his hopes up.

Nelson is up next. But he is 92 or 93. Is Oaks up after Nelson?

Jesus Christ, he is old! I wonder how short his run will be.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:20 am 
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Hey Chuck!
Chuck Finley wrote:

Quote:
More than half a century before he became the 16th president of the LDS Church, Thomas S. Monson, who died at 10:01 p.m. Tuesday at his Salt Lake City home at age 90, was an inexperienced, 23-year-old Mormon bishop with a distressing problem that would define his life.


My sympathy to his family/loved ones.

(What is the distressing problem that would define his life?)

Peace,
Ceeboo


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:41 am 
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At least he lived a long life. Rest in peace.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:00 am 
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Quote:
More than half a century before he became the 16th president of the LDS Church, Thomas S. Monson, who died at 10:01 p.m. Tuesday at his Salt Lake City home at age 90, was an inexperienced, 23-year-old Mormon bishop with a distressing problem that would define his life.

Ceeboo wrote:
My sympathy to his family/loved ones.

(What is the distressing problem that would define his life?)

Peace,
Ceeboo

Just a guess, Mr. Ceeboo, but Mr. Monson had a lot of widows in his ward where he was bishop. He often talked about helping the widows, the poor, and the needy.* So I'm assuming that's what it meant.


*The sarcastic a--hole in me wants to say, "Malls were build, cattle-ranches were bought, and hearts were touched."

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:13 am 
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Hi Cameron! :smile:

CameronMO wrote:
Just a guess, Mr. Ceeboo, but Mr. Monson had a lot of widows in his ward where he was bishop. He often talked about helping the widows, the poor, and the needy.* So I'm assuming that's what it meant.

Hmmm - Intersteting.
I wonder what the cause of this was?

Anyway, thanks for the reply!

Peace,
Ceeboo


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:00 am 
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President Monson was the first President of the LDS Church whose tenure I experienced completely as a disaffected Mormon. To put it differently, whereas I once lived believing President Hinckley was a bonafide prophet of God, I never saw President Monson, in his role as head of the LDS Church, as anything other than a decent fellow who led a large organization. This is how I mark his passing from the world as it touches on my own story.

I liked President Monson well enough. He seemed like a decent person. The widow stories got a little old, but they were well intended and a good reminder to honor and serve the elderly. I remember shaking his hand at a special gathering in Washington, D.C. His huge hand completely enveloped my own. He was a large man. I recall him waving to me before he entered the elevator at the Church Administration building when I was interviewing for a BYU position.

But his tenure as president has been in many ways unremarkable to me. I feel like the Q12 has eclipsed the FP as the face of LDS leadership. Remember it was Elder Nelson who first called the November Policy a revelation. Which gets me to my final point, and that is the string of baffling and unchristian actions the Church took under Monson. It was under Monson that I started to see the LDS Church as having gone off the rails to the point that one could in theological terms conclude there was a new apostasy.

But no doubt this reflects my own experience as much as anything. Perhaps there are millions of Mormons whose experience of Monson differed little from their experience of Kimball. Nevertheless, it is interesting for me to reflect on my Mormon experience as lived in the Monson years.


Last edited by Kishkumen on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:06 am 
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The order of succession (with current age) is as follows:
Nelson - 93
Oaks - 85
Ballard - 89
Holland - 77
Eyring - 84

Anybody still confused as to why the Church lags at least 30 years behind society; struggles to handle immediate societal challenges; and fails to be relevant and connected with the core of the membership?

The Church is outdated and white. It’s policies are outdated and white. The way leadership engages with members and the public is outdated and white. Old, old, old. In institutional development the Church is just reaching the end of the 1980’s (at best).

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Last edited by I have a question on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:07 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
President Monson was the first President of the LDS Church whose tenure I experience completely as a disaffected Mormon. To put it differently, whereas I once lived believing President Hinckley was a bonafide prophet of God, I never saw President Monson, in his role as head of the LDS Church, as anything other than a decent fellow who led a large organization. This is how I mark his passing from the world as it touches on my own story.

I liked President Monson well enough. He seemed like a decent person. The widow stories got a little old, but they were well intended and a good reminder to honor and serve the elderly. I remember shaking his hand at a special gathering in Washington, D.C. His huge hand completely enveloped my own. He was a large man. I recall him waving to me before he entered the elevator at the Church Administration building when I was interviewing for a BYU position.

But his tenure as president has been in many ways unremarkable to me. I feel like that the Q12 has eclipsed the FP as the face of LDS leadership. Remember it was Elder Nelson who first called the November Policy a revelation. Which gets me to my final point, and that is the string of baffling and unchristian actions the Church took under Monson. It was under Monson that I started to see the LDS Church as having gone off the rails to the point that one could in theological terms conclude there was a new apostasy.

But no doubt this reflects my own experience as much as anything. Perhaps there are millions of Mormons whose experience of Monson differed little from their experience of Kimball. Nevertheless, it is interesting for me to reflect on my Mormon experience as lived in the Monson years.


Very true. There were rumors about President Monson being senile. I often wondered if he was, considering how much the 12 seemed to steamroll policy through that, as you pointed out, was extremely un-Christian. Now, Elder Nelson, who passed that famous piece of policy against the children of gay couples, is now the new President of the Church. It will be interesting to see what kind of turn the Church continues to take.

My heart does go out to President Monson's family, and I hope that he rests in peace.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:23 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Which gets me to my final point, and that is the string of baffling and unchristian actions the Church took under Monson. It was under Monson that I started to see the LDS Church as having gone off the rails to the point that one could in theological terms conclude there was a new apostasy.


According to his memoirs, he moved out of his home simply on the basis that he was uncomfortable living near the minorities that were moving in to the area where he lived.

Runtu can tell a tale about how Monson vetoed a Church pamphlet until the black person on the front cover was replaced by a more delight some one.

He was, I believe, involved in the programme of electro shock therapy meted out to gay members to help ‘cure’ them.

He generated the policy whereby children with gay parents are barred from baptism until they reach 18 years old and denounce their parents.

He generated The Rescue, which has seen growth and activity rates decline steadily.

He opened a Shopping Mall and told everyone to go shopping.

He prayed over a bank.

His signature piece of revelation was the reduction in age at which a young person can serve a mission, any impact of which has now been and gone.

With due condolences to his family and friends for their personal loss...

President Monson has died, so what?

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:35 am 
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I can honestly say Monson was the worst President of my life. I never liked him as a TBM and I never liked him as an exmormon. Though I don’t celebrate in ones passing, I won’t miss the man.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am 
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Chuck Finley wrote:
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900006756/President-Thomas-S-Monson-16th-prophet-of-the-LDS-Church-dies-after-a-lifetime-spent-going-to-the-rescue.html

Quote:
More than half a century before he became the 16th president of the LDS Church, Thomas S. Monson, who died at 10:01 p.m. Tuesday at his Salt Lake City home at age 90, was an inexperienced, 23-year-old Mormon bishop with a distressing problem that would define his life.


Minorities were trick or treating in his neighborhood?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:51 am 
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The thing is you just don't know. Who was the man behind the Zorro mask? If only he were claimed to be a fencing champ rather than the most powerful man on the planet. This is a man who at any time, could call home the 10 tribes from the ice of the North Countries or dust off his feet and bring an entire city to the ground. The fact that he never did these things does not mean that he couldn't do them. And so, with great power comes great responsibility. It won't do that he was good to certain people on occasion. It's said that Monson's public figure was a show, and that in private he was brutal and demanding -- a cold, no-nonsense businessman with great intelligence and little sympathy.

Perhaps the accounts of his brutality were exaggerated or perhaps, his good deeds in private were under-reported. I'm not suggesting like certain apologists that we can't really know the truth, but in this case, it seems like it would be reasonable amount of work to weigh both sides fairly and come to a firm answer about a man who essentially meant little to nothing to anyone.

Hinckley was in my view the transitional fossil where Mormonism completely shed its religious shell and evolved into an entirely self-preserving business entity. I've never heard any of my TBM relatives speak about Monson or Hinckley the same way they spoke about Spencer W. Kimball and others. In fact, I'm not sure I recall any comments about them at all. And I'm speaking about Chapel Mormons here, the detachment of Internet Mormonism is full and complete.

Oh yes, you may find apologists for instance, at FAIR, using this as an opportunity to claim victim status and ban critics for not respecting the sorrow of true believing apologist members. Rest assured, they don't really care and are really introspecting to come up anything at all.


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:17 am 
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Gadianton wrote:
It's said that Monson's public figure was a show, and that in private he was brutal and demanding -- a cold, no-nonsense businessman with great intelligence and little sympathy.

Where is that said?


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:49 am 
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And the new president of the church is WW-wendy Watson Nelson, old maid married in her 50's to Nelson and from what you could sense put a new spring in his step. now any revelation she wants will be decided in the bedroom or in the kitchen where she will cook or not cook his favorite chicken soup.

watch for hardcore revelations on the submission of women and the continued blasting of the lgbt's. nelson will go down swinging trying to bring the church back to the good ole days.

i hope he chokes on his soup but let oaks choke first.

now monson will get to meet that sailor whose story he could never get straight plus meet the God he never knew.

i don't think he will rest in peace-sad he could have if he had simply told the truth!

kl


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:10 am 
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Stem wrote:
Gadianton wrote:
It's said that Monson's public figure was a show, and that in private he was brutal and demanding -- a cold, no-nonsense businessman with great intelligence and little sympathy.



Where is that said?


I Google'd 'Thomas Monson + brutal + demanding':

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... t/de7n39r/

Quote:
HERE IS THE ORIGINAL 1ST HAND ACCOUNT.

04/17/2005 - Marvelous. As Son and Heir posted a story about Tom Monson's birthday cake and the First Presidency, I thought I would share my Tom Monson story.

I served in the mission office for one of the current apostles. Because my family is TBM LDS, I prefer not to be more specific about this and other personal details. As a missionary, I met Elder Monson several times and was responsible for arranging for him several newspaper interviews. I witnessed firsthand his almost superhuman memory and soft spot for elderly sisters. He remembered members he had met in the distant past, greeting them by name. It was amazing.

Someone in the know (it could have been my mission president), related how Monson had manipulated the exclusion of President Tanner from a major media event in our mission so he could be the center of attention. This was my only negative impression at that time.

At BYU, I roomed with the son of the secretary to the Quorum of Twelve. He related many GA stories. These confirm what Son and Heir and others have related concerning Brother Tom. He is insufferably demanding and insensitive.

After graduation, I went to work for a stock brokerage firm in Salt Lake City. I introduced myself to the controller of a major company owned by the LDS Church and convinced him to invest their considerable excess cash in preferred bonds. My recommendation had not been made by any of the other numerous financial advisors competing for the business and the controller was prepared to give me the business. First, though, he had to present my idea to the board, which featured Elder Monson as its resident GA.

Well, Elder Monson had a relationship with one of the top brokers in my office, who either was, or had been, a stake president. Monson approved the transaction, but asked that the business be given to the other broker. When my branch manager broke the news to me, I was heartsick. It seemed so unfair, as our firm, and this other broker, would never have gotten the business if I hadn't come up with the idea and pursued the opportunity. I was expected to step aside and concede the business and relationship to the other broker. As a concession, he gave me half of the commission on the first transaction. Ironically, he stuck it to the Church and his mark-up was more than twice what mine would have been. However, there was so much more business to come that this was little consolation to me.

At the time, I was a young father of two and a faithful Elders Quorum President. I was trying to establish my securities practice and this was my first significant break. I couldn't imagine that Elder Monson would deprive me and my family of my just reward, so I decided to contact him. As you can imagine, I was tentative, as I realized how insignificant I was in the scheme of things. However, you will never get very far in the investment world if you are passive and I was determined not to acquiesce without a fight. Somehow I got his phone number (I think it was in the directory) and with considerable apprehension dialed. He answered and I quickly introduced myself and explained my predicament. I mentioned that I had worked with him in the mission field and I was an active Latter-day Saint. I knew the probability of him redirecting the business to me was low, but I thought I would get some sympathy at the very least. Instead, he asked me if my branch manager knew what I was up to. He then threatened to shift the business to a competitor. I hastily apologized for my impertinence and ended the call.

His response mortified me. It wasn't so much that he had treated me with utter indifference, but that my livelihood was in jeopardy. The blow was worse than the one my branch manager delivered initially. It was one thing to lose a big deal, and another to lose my job altogether!

I was deeply hurt by Elder Monson's callousness and coldness. His warning was calculated to put me in my place. I felt very insignificant and vulnerable. It didn't affect my testimony of the Church, but it sure destroyed any confidence in him. My experience confirmed for me his hypocrisy. He is all platitudes. There is no substance, only self-engrandizement. Although I'm inactive and non-believing, I still wish Church members well and shudder to think of Tom Monson as their leader. Hinckley is a moral giant compared to Monson.

You know what's almost scary? His memory is so incredible, if someone relates this post to him he just may remember the incident and be able to identify who I am through inference. Guess my decision about whether to remain on the books will be taken from me. Well, Tom, they say the best revenge is living well. I wouldn't trade my life for yours for all the hokey anecdotes in the world! Your punishment is having to live with yourse

permalinkembedsaveparentgive gold


I think if you're looking for juicer stuff you can probably peruse:

http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/ ... assmonson/

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:14 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
President Monson was the first President of the LDS Church whose tenure I experienced completely as a disaffected Mormon. To put it differently, whereas I once lived believing President Hinckley was a bonafide prophet of God, I never saw President Monson, in his role as head of the LDS Church, as anything other than a decent fellow who led a large organization. This is how I mark his passing from the world as it touches on my own story.

I liked President Monson well enough. He seemed like a decent person. The widow stories got a little old, but they were well intended and a good reminder to honor and serve the elderly. I remember shaking his hand at a special gathering in Washington, D.C. His huge hand completely enveloped my own. He was a large man. I recall him waving to me before he entered the elevator at the Church Administration building when I was interviewing for a BYU position.

But his tenure as president has been in many ways unremarkable to me. I feel like the Q12 has eclipsed the FP as the face of LDS leadership. Remember it was Elder Nelson who first called the November Policy a revelation. Which gets me to my final point, and that is the string of baffling and unchristian actions the Church took under Monson. It was under Monson that I started to see the LDS Church as having gone off the rails to the point that one could in theological terms conclude there was a new apostasy.

But no doubt this reflects my own experience as much as anything. Perhaps there are millions of Mormons whose experience of Monson differed little from their experience of Kimball. Nevertheless, it is interesting for me to reflect on my Mormon experience as lived in the Monson years.


^^^^^^
This

I expereinced Monson as a man put in a difficutl position at a time when the LDS church was facing the realities of its history being exposed by the internet. He took the reins of the church when all of its truth claims could be scrutinized with a few key strokes on the computer. Frankly I don't think he ever knew what hit him.

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Last edited by Craig Paxton on Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: President Monson has died
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:15 am 
Stake High Council

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Ceeboo wrote:
My sympathy to his family/loved ones.

(What is the distressing problem that would define his life?)

Peace,
Ceeboo

I know you are a capable enough man to click a link that is offered, Ceeboo. If you are curious read the article. Or, whatever, i'll quote it for you:

Quote:
was an inexperienced, 23-year-old Mormon bishop with a distressing problem that would define his life.
He had the distinct spiritual prompting to leave a priesthood leadership meeting as his stake president was speaking and visit an elderly member of his congregation in the hospital. It seemed rude to stand, shuffle over 20 people and exit as his presiding leader spoke. Instead, he sat uncomfortably until the talk ended, then bolted for the door before the closing prayer.
At the hospital, he ran down the corridor. He stopped when he saw commotion outside the room of the man he was to visit. A nurse told him the man had died, calling Bishop Monson's name as he passed away. Shattered, the fledgling bishop went outside and wept, sobbing. He vowed then, in the parking lot of the old Veterans Hospital in Salt Lake City's Avenues, that he would never turn a deaf ear to another prompting.
"It's the most impressive story I know from him about his ministry to the one," said Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. "As far as I know he kept that promise ever since. It became fundamentally characteristic of his life and what sets him apart from others, that he committed to this idea of following a prompting, and the focus almost always was a single person."

I don't mean to sound rude or careless but it's a bit of an odd story. Do any of us just up and do whatever prompting that happens upon us? Should we? In the long run why would it matter if he saw the guy take his last breath as opposed to arrive just after he passed? Would it matter to the guy in the long run?


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