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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm 
God
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Morley wrote:

Kishkumen wrote:
With all due respect to the consul, and I do mean that sincerely, I think it was a fine choice for a dissertation topic, at least in theory.

My apologies, friends; this was a poorly constructed irony used to tease Bot, not to question the intellectual value of any of these projects. I'm in agreement, Kish: the work of Ruijgh I playfully referenced (as well as his student's) actually sheds a lot of brilliant light on Homeric language; the discovery of Elizabethan speech patterns in the Book of Mormon (if genuine, which is open) has a lot to say about the dialectology of semi-literate English speakers on the frontier, a difficult topic to explore given the absence of unmediated texts; Reid Neilson's book about the world's fair (which I was jokingly conflating with Patrick Mason's on anti-Mormonism) is one I actually enjoyed and learned a lot from; and I think the topic of this dissertation is timely, and I expect the work will reveal a lot of things that would otherwise be invisible about Mormon culture in the digital age, the stress that puts on the Church hierarchy, and the durability (or lack of it) of Mormon identity in a secular society. I hope I will have time to read it in a few months.

My target was Bot's comment about a dissertation on three words in Milton. I have no idea whether or not that is a real dissertation, but judging the quality and usefulness of an intellectual project in such a superficial way is stupid and anti-intellectual. I would expect a comment like that from a middle aged or retired reader of mostly WWII books bought at Barnes and Noble, but not from an important administrator of an academic program.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:48 pm 
God

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I have a question wrote:
Morley wrote:
Religious liberty is not under siege.

Of course it isn’t, but that’s the Trojan Horse the Church would like to use in order to impose Mormonism on the unbaptised masses.

I published a paper at Rutgers Law pointing out that the judge who struck down Prop 8 did so because the Mormons and the Catholics used religious reasons in the public fora to influence the electorate.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
I published a paper at Rutgers Law pointing out that the judge who struck down Prop 8 did so because the Mormons and the Catholics used religious reasons in the public fora to influence the electorate.

Cite?

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:16 pm 
God

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Ceeboo wrote:
Hey Yahoo! :smile:
Yahoo Bot wrote:
I mean that the church ought to able to say that homosexual practice is a sin and disables one from full fellowship, and have the freedom to say it in public.


Just curious - Is the sin of practicing homosexuality the only sin that the LDS church ought to be able to have the freedom to project in public and prevent full fellowship?

Of the approximate 125 sins that are listed in the Bible - are there any other sins that would result in the LDS church taking the very same stance? How about bearing false witness?

In other words, how many Mormons do you know that are sinless? If the answer is none (I don't know a single person who is) - how can the LDS church allow "full fellowship" to anyone?

Just curious and thanks.

Peace,
Ceeboo


In order asked:
No. No. I don't know. None. I don't know; I have no clue. I don't know or care if the Church is right or wrong on its stances, but a church has the right to ordain homosexuals to the priesthood and not have the government deny marriage licenses to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:21 pm 
Seedy Academician
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The elephant in the room is schism. Dr. Shades is a real pioneer in that he identified the silent schism so many years in advance. Excommunications, apostasy, Snuffer, disaffection, inactivity, withdrawing one’s name from the records—how many of these phenomena flow, directly or indirectly, from the advent of the Internet? At some point more Mormons will realize their power and decisively part from the LDS Church and yet remain Mormon. Snuffer is just the beginning.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:01 pm 
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I am agnostic on the question of whether dissertations dealing with "three words from Milton" truly make a meaningful contribution to our scholarly knowledge. That said, I do think it's worth pointing out the Avance's dissertation on online Mormonism and Mopologetics earned her a Ph.D.. The same just cannot be said for the Mopologists' "scholarship." I can't help but think of the Gee/Ritner fiasco, where Ritner (allegedly) dumped Gee altogether after he (i.e., Ritner) saw that Gee was putting apologetic junk into his dissertation. Even if someone like Yahoo Bot wants to argue (or imply) that Avance's scholarship / subject matter is "crap," the fact remains that this "crap" passed muster at an Ivy League institution, and you just can't say that about anything Mopologetic.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:34 pm 
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All of you would be singing a different tune if a treasure trove of Nephite artifacts were discovered under a rock in Spanish Fork Canyon and ended up being independently verified by both FAIRMormon and the Mormon Interpreter. Plus it would serve everybody right if only students from BYU-Provo and BYU-Idaho were allowed to write dissertations about this Nephite treasure trove.

Later on, a movie starring Kirby Heywood would be shown at the Larry H. Miller theaters. It would be tentatively titled, The Treasure of the Sierra Spanish Fork and would subsequently win the coveted Beehive award.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
I am agnostic on the question of whether dissertations dealing with "three words from Milton" truly make a meaningful contribution to our scholarly knowledge. That said, I do think it's worth pointing out the Avance's dissertation on online Mormonism and Mopologetics earned her a Ph.D.. The same just cannot be said for the Mopologists' "scholarship." I can't help but think of the Gee/Ritner fiasco, where Ritner (allegedly) dumped Gee altogether after he (i.e., Ritner) saw that Gee was putting apologetic junk into his dissertation. Even if someone like Yahoo Bot wants to argue (or imply) that Avance's scholarship / subject matter is "crap," the fact remains that this "crap" passed muster at an Ivy League institution, and you just can't say that about anything Mopologetic.


I don't speak for Mormon Interpreter, but I think the essays are more geared to be read by Seminary and Institute teachers rather than by professors of theology at Notre Dame. Yokels like me. Otherwise they wouldn't have MDs, for instance, writing papers for them. Or people without advanced degrees; they appear as authors all the time. It is for that reason Dr. Hamblin took heat for his output. They are scholarly and peer-reviewed, to a point and not beyond that. By contrast, the new Maxwell Institute is designed to publish the kind of papers to be read by professors at Notre Dame and the papers do go through a traditional peer review process.

This UPenn dissertation is interesting because it relies so heavily upon internet gossip for its sociological discussion, something I've not seen before, but I don't read a lot of unpublished soft science dissertations, either. Or any until they are published for commercial gain.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
This UPenn dissertation is interesting because it relies so heavily upon internet gossip for its sociological discussion, something I've not seen before, but I don't read a lot of unpublished soft science dissertations, either. Or any until they are published for commercial gain.


I'm sure Ms. Avance would be pleased to know you think her dissertation was based on "gossip" and not Michael Holquist's theory of dialogism.

I urge you to read, and then re-read Appendix I. You're embarrassing yourself.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 pm 
God

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Yahoo Bot wrote:
This UPenn dissertation is interesting because it relies so heavily upon internet gossip for its sociological discussion, something I've not seen before, but I don't read a lot of unpublished soft science dissertations, either. Or any until they are published for commercial gain.


I'm sure Ms. Avance would be pleased to know you think her dissertation was based on "gossip" and not Michael Holquist's theory of dialogism.

I urge you to read, and then re-read Appendix I. You're embarrassing yourself.

- Doc


It is based on gossip and tons of it.

And more, to dress up a pig in a fairy's costume. I still find it interesting and entertaining. Written the way Terryl Givens writes, but I can only take so much before I want to hurl.

I'd urge you to be more discriminating, but then this is the board that thinks that Riskas is Hemingway. Actually, I hate Hemingway. How about Tolstoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:29 pm 
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In the off chance that anyone is actually paying the slightest attention to Robert Crockett, here is a sample of his scholarship: viewtopic.php?t=3703

It's one of the most dishonest, amateurish pieces of dookie I've had the misfortune to read.

I really think Robert Crockett has "mentally" jumped the shark. He's now the official mormondiscussion.com crazy old man who yells at everyone to get off his lawn.

Just ignore and pity him.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
I published a paper at Rutgers Law pointing out that the judge who struck down Prop 8 did so because the Mormons and the Catholics used religious reasons in the public fora to influence the electorate.


Thanks. I'm reading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
I don't read a lot of unpublished soft science dissertations, either. Or any until they are published for commercial gain.

I hear you. Who would have thought that the internet might be not only a topic of study but also a source of information for the Annenberg School of Communication? The world keeps whizzing by us. We can remember the good old days of Readers Digest and Popular Mechanics when life was good, oh so mellow, and devoid of the soft sciences.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:33 am 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
In the off chance that anyone is actually paying the slightest attention to Robert Crockett, here is a sample of his scholarship: http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... php?t=3703

It's one of the most dishonest, amateurish pieces of dookie I've had the misfortune to read.

I really think Robert Crockett has "mentally" jumped the shark. He's now the official mormondiscussion.com crazy old man who yells at everyone to get off his lawn.

Just ignore and pity him.


I thought the article was well received despite being published by FARMS. My researcher turned up a lot of NARA material never before published showing continued unsuccessful efforts to pin Brigham Young to the crime, putting the lie to Brook's claim about a deal to scapegoat Lee.

Plus I highlight that Bishop letter. In a list discussion with Bagley he said he should have mentioned it. Cuts against his theory.

I don't mind being pitied. And you are right. An amateur. Just the sort of writing I depise. But it was an effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:40 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
Quote:
I'm sure Ms. Avance would be pleased to know you think her dissertation was based on "gossip" and not Michael Holquist's theory of dialogism.

I urge you to read, and then re-read Appendix I. You're embarrassing yourself.

- Doc


It is based on gossip and tons of it.

And more, to dress up a pig in a fairy's costume. I still find it interesting and entertaining. Written the way Terryl Givens writes, but I can only take so much before I want to hurl.

I'd urge you to be more discriminating, but then this is the board that thinks that Riskas is Hemingway. Actually, I hate Hemingway. How about Tolstoy.


It's clear to me you haven't read the dissertation, and no, scrolling through it isn't technically reading it.

You've made two assertions on this thread, of which you haven't offered up any context other than an opinion. The fact that you're describing Ms. Avance's dissertation as based on gossip is fantastically wrong and only something a misinformed person who literally hasn't read the it would say. Put the r____ leopard away, Bob.

- Doc


Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:28 am 
God

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
You've made two assertions on this thread, of which you haven't offered up any context other than an opinion. The fact that you're describing Ms. Avance's dissertation as based on gossip is fantastically wrong and only somethjng a misinformed person who literally hasn't read the it would say. Put the r******* leopard away, Bob.

- Doc

Learn to tolerate disagreement.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:45 am 
God
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
You've made two assertions on this thread, of which you haven't offered up any context other than an opinion. The fact that you're describing Ms. Avance's dissertation as based on gossip is fantastically wrong and only somethjng a misinformed person who literally hasn't read the it would say. Put the r******* leopard away, Bob.

- Doc

Learn to tolerate disagreement.


Fair point. I just wish you'd provide content when you reference it, provide a quotation, or cite a publication when making your assertion.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:48 am 
God

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I don't want to. Look, I don't really disagree with her assertions except where I've noted above; in particular, the account of the collapse of FARMS Review is just plain wrong. I just say that a lot of her work is based upon evidence of marginal quality. I mean, I read the New York Post on occasion and agree with it but it doesn't make it a quality publication.


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:53 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
I don't want to. Look, I don't really disagree with her assertions except where I've noted above; in particular, the account of the collapse of FARMS Review is just plain wrong. I just say that a lot of her work is based upon evidence of marginal quality. I mean, I read the New York Post on occasion and agree with it but it doesn't make it a quality publication.


And that's fine. You'll be given the appropriate amount of respect on the topic commensurate with the amount of effort you put into it.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:55 am 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
In the off chance that anyone is actually paying the slightest attention to Robert Crockett, here is a sample of his scholarship: viewtopic.php?t=3703

It's one of the most dishonest, amateurish pieces of dookie I've had the misfortune to read.

I really think Robert Crockett has "mentally" jumped the shark. He's now the official mormondiscussion.com crazy old man who yells at everyone to get off his lawn.

Just ignore and pity him.


Pity him he has an idiot for an attorney that advised him it was okay to post his irl info all over the internet. He regrets it so he encourages everyone to do it. Checkout my sigline. It is hard to ignore his idiot attorney.

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 Post subject: Re: Internet vs. Chapel Mormon - UPenn Doctoral Dissertation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:00 am 
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Tator wrote:
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
In the off chance that anyone is actually paying the slightest attention to Robert Crockett, here is a sample of his scholarship: http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... php?t=3703

It's one of the most dishonest, amateurish pieces of dookie I've had the misfortune to read.

I really think Robert Crockett has "mentally" jumped the shark. He's now the official mormondiscussion.com crazy old man who yells at everyone to get off his lawn.

Just ignore and pity him.

Pity him he has an idiot for an attorney that advised him it was okay to post his irl info all over the internet. He regrets it so he encourages everyone to do it. Checkout my sigline. It is hard to ignore his idiot attorney.

I don't encourage posting non-anonymously. I merely say that one has marginal credibility by posting anonymously. One takes his or her's security into hand, which is my case indeed, by posting in one's own name. But I could not live with myself insulting people anonymously. I think that shows extremely bad and cowardly character. The insult itself may be bad enough as a character issue, but doing it anonymously makes one a rank coward. And as I said many times, your sig line has a sarcastic joke of mine in it, but hey, I don't question your man crush. Not that there is anything wrong with it. I'm flattered to see people actually using my statements in their sig lines. It perpetuates my existence here and, to the extent you believe it feeds the troll, it does so well.


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