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 Post subject: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:26 pm 
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I am almost finished a book via kindle - one of HN's sons put together about his exploits in wwII.
On almost every page Nibley praises himself and his exploits- for example he "knew the date of the allied Normandy invasion, knew when the germans would attack at the battle of the bulge and the generals would not believe him, personally knew and talked history with the likes of gen Maxwell Taylor and general omar Bradley, slipped through an entire german unit undetected, rode a jeep around Utah beach with bullets whizzing by, happen to put a piece of iron plate under his seat just as the german guns shot at a glider he was supposedly in and by the way he was in the first glider no less for the 101st airborne-right; knew of 5 us soldiers raping women in a French bridal party and said nothing; spoke so many languages he was indispensable; had a tank park over his foxhole and he could not get out till it left in the morning"

i am reminded of paul dunn- but now Nibley is in the grave and i guess it makes no sense to investigate his wild claims-he recorded all this in his late 70's or so, so his son says there may be exaggerations-no kidding.

anyone else read the book? over on sic et non, "yes and no" a few go on and on about what truly wonderful story this all is- makes me sick.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:44 pm 
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kairos wrote:
i am reminded of paul dunn- but now Nibley is in the grave and i guess it makes no sense to investigate his wild claims-he recorded all this in his late 70's or so, so his son says there may be exaggerations-no kidding.


The clever thing about all of these claims is that they are absolutely impossible to verify.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:00 pm 
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kairos wrote:
I am almost finished a book via kindle - one of HN's sons put together about his exploits in wwII.
On almost every page Nibley praises himself and his exploits- for example he "knew the date of the allied Normandy invasion, knew when the germans would attack at the battle of the bulge and the generals would not believe him, personally knew and talked history with the likes of gen Maxwell Taylor and general omar Bradley, slipped through an entire german unit undetected, rode a jeep around Utah beach with bullets whizzing by, happen to put a piece of iron plate under his seat just as the german guns shot at a glider he was supposedly in and by the way he was in the first glider no less for the 101st airborne-right; knew of 5 us soldiers raping women in a French bridal party and said nothing; spoke so many languages he was indispensable; had a tank park over his foxhole and he could not get out till it left in the morning"

i am reminded of paul dunn- but now Nibley is in the grave and i guess it makes no sense to investigate his wild claims-he recorded all this in his late 70's or so, so his son says there may be exaggerations-no kidding.

anyone else read the book? over on sic et non, "yes and no" a few go on and on about what truly wonderful story this all is- makes me sick.


You're kidding me?? That is straight up Dunnian levels of stolen valor ____. I want to see his service records.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
kairos wrote:
I am almost finished a book via kindle - one of HN's sons put together about his exploits in wwII.
On almost every page Nibley praises himself and his exploits- for example he "knew the date of the allied Normandy invasion, knew when the germans would attack at the battle of the bulge and the generals would not believe him, personally knew and talked history with the likes of gen Maxwell Taylor and general omar Bradley, slipped through an entire german unit undetected, rode a jeep around Utah beach with bullets whizzing by, happen to put a piece of iron plate under his seat just as the german guns shot at a glider he was supposedly in and by the way he was in the first glider no less for the 101st airborne-right; knew of 5 us soldiers raping women in a French bridal party and said nothing; spoke so many languages he was indispensable; had a tank park over his foxhole and he could not get out till it left in the morning"

i am reminded of paul dunn- but now Nibley is in the grave and i guess it makes no sense to investigate his wild claims-he recorded all this in his late 70's or so, so his son says there may be exaggerations-no kidding.

anyone else read the book? over on sic et non, "yes and no" a few go on and on about what truly wonderful story this all is- makes me sick.


You're kidding me?? That is straight up Dunnian levels of stolen valor ____. I want to see his service records.

- Doc

There are so many improbables in this narrative its hard to keep track. I'll start with the aircraft mentioned in this tall tale.

Like any aircraft, the gliders used in the D-Day invasion would have a rated gross take-off weight and would have been packed to the limit with men and combat gear. The chances of an extra piece of heavy iron simply laying around in the cabin would have been less than zero.

Now, if Nibley was talking about sitting on the steel pot of his helmet, as many Air Cav troops did while being transported in their Hueys in Viet Nam, that would be another story. If this is the "piece of iron" (it's steel actually) he was talking about, you can bet he was not the first to come up with the idea and that he was also not the only one sitting on his pot if the plywood gliders were taking ground fire on final approach.

One other question - if Nibley was transported over the channel in a glider, how did he (as an NCO) get a hold of a jeep, and what in the hell was he doing back on Utah Beach in said jeep before the beach was secured from enemy machine gun / small arms fire?
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Utah Beach itself was considered secure by nightfall of the first day. The glider and parachute troops were inserted further inland to secure essential roads leading from the beachhead to the interior. If Nibley arrived in France in a glider, his unit would have been assigned inland taking care of any German resistance and guarding roads and bridges. The actions of the airborne units are well documented.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:24 am 
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The nibster says that for D-day a general took his glider seat so he had to take the general's jeep in a ship and then in landing craft , and he drive it off onto Utah beach and drove it to where the 101st airborne div was behind enemy lines. after that 101st mission they all went back to England where they prepared for operation Market Garden which he said he rode in on glider number one with at iron plate under his ass and the german bullets bounced off. at the battle of the bulge, he was called back to paris the night before the germans attacked. he was an order of battle specialist who simply was indispensable to the greater call of the Army hQs back in Paris. of course he said all of his buddies were killed at the battle of the bulge.

yes i would like to see his service record and all those medals he should have earned.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:36 am 
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What's the name of the book, dude.

- doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:32 am 
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kairos wrote:
The nibster says that for D-day a general took his glider seat so he had to take the general's jeep in a ship and then in landing craft , and he drive it off onto Utah beach and drove it to where the 101st airborne div was behind enemy lines. after that 101st mission they all went back to England where they prepared for operation Market Garden which he said he rode in on glider number one with at iron plate under his ass and the german bullets bounced off. at the battle of the bulge, he was called back to paris the night before the germans attacked. he was an order of battle specialist who simply was indispensable to the greater call of the Army hQs back in Paris. of course he said all of his buddies were killed at the battle of the bulge.

yes i would like to see his service record and all those medals he should have earned.

Well, that certainly explains everything perfectly. My sincerest apologies for having doubted a single word.


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Market Garden (the operation that became known as "a bridge too far") was widely regarded, even by Ike himself, as a failed offensive. Intel was inadequate, and coordination among units was lacking.

Seems unlikely that an NCO who was in the lead glider for that unfortunate operation would have been called to Paris as an expert in order of battle - but that's just me.

More likely that a sergeant in the lead glider for that operation would have been among the 18,000 Allied troops killed and would not have even been alive for the Battle of the Bulge.

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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Last edited by DrW on Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Apologies in advance.

Self aggrandizement regarding one's actions or behavior in war, especially of the kind that HN claimed, really bothers me.

My father fought in Europe in WWII. He never talked about it. Even when I was heading out for Marine Corps boot camp, and asked him about his experiences, he was reticent to say much and I could get little out of him.

Same with my father in law, who fought on the side of Germany in both WWI and WWII. Both of these men are gone now. So are my wife's older half brothers; one killed in Russia and one in southern France in WWII. The family has their obituaries from the local newspapers. My sons now carry their names.

War is not glorious. Participation in combat is not something to which one should aspire.

The real war heroes, the military officers who make a difference by doing their best to avoid deadly conflict and to help work out non-violent settlements within their spheres of influence, will seldom speak of their experiences, let along brag about them.

A former commander of NATO forces in Europe served for several years on our board of advisers. During that period, I spent time with him in a variety of settings. This man was a real soldier and a real gentleman. The same can be said for other retired military officers I have worked with over the years.

When the subject of this man's roles in conflicts came up, he would speak in very matter of fact and objective terms. He spoke of problems and resolutions and not about his personal role or exploits. Yet I saw first hand the recognition and respect he was shown by pretty much everyone he encountered as he walked the halls of the Pentagon, and elsewhere as well.

The thoughts and actions of these kinds of soldiers are what Americans need to hear about our military in the age of Trump.

Now that Trump, supported by many Republicans, is making the whole world uneasy with his empty yet dangerous threats of a war of annihilation against the DPRK, the last thing conservatives in this country need to hear are the nostalgia-laced and highly embellished war stories of a long dead sergeant in WWII.

I do not discount for one minute the strong and unique bonds that can develop between members of the military with a common mission, especially in combat. These experiences form lasting friendships, impressions and memories. Yet, if one had control of the past, I doubt that anyone who has lost friends and loved ones to armed conflict, myself included, would ever trade the lives of those lost for the relationships and memories formed in combat.

No one should glorify or brag about their behavior in combat, when the only reason they can do so is because they won the survival lottery - a lottery in which there were hundreds, thousands, or millions of losers, many of them completely innocent.

No one in their right mind should be nostalgic for war.

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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Last edited by DrW on Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Thank you, DrW. The chickenhawks who love to talk tough from the safety of their keyboards only impress each other. Real warriors and veterans have nothing to prove.

It would appear that yet another Mormon idol has feet of clay. It will be interesting to deconstruct this latest latter day fable. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:50 am 
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Nibley is an individual who intrigues me, and it did not escape my attention that this question has already been discussed on this board, with some similar conclusions arrived at:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35222


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:13 am 
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Johannes wrote:
Nibley is an individual who intrigues me, and it did not escape my attention that this question has already been discussed on this board, with some similar conclusions arrived at:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35222

Thanks, Johannes.

Opened the OP you linked to and saw that the information there was even more fantastical than that provided in the OP to this thread - and more damning still when considered in the light of the present OP.

kairos wrote:
Go to http://www.hughnibley.net and read his letters to home concerning his WWII "exploits". You would think Brother Hugh was an at risk infantryman who escaped death on a number of occasions- about 5 minutes after he goes down the rope ladder from a ship to a landing craft that part of the ship is hit and 8 tankmen are killed so he says ; or he is a passenger in a glider and sees an iron plate on the floor and pulls it up to sit on and 3 machine gun bullets strike the plate and several bullets go between his legs.

as an intel soldier he tells that his team lied about what they knew about the enemy forces and they briefed madeup stuff to the commanders and soldiers.

maybe paul dunn read hugh's letters and figured if it was good enough for hugh he dunn could take it further.

my low estimate of hugh nibley's character just sunk lower- i see a deceitful, lying SOB who had zero regard for telling the truth.

read some of the letters it is so obvious he is a lying scoundrel or as#h*(e.

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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:47 am 
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Man. The Mormons reviewing this book have elevated Nibley to L. Ron Hubbard levels of god-like perfection.

https://www.amazon.com/Sergeant-Nibley- ... geNumber=3

All right. Challenge accepted. I just ordered the book from the library. I'll give it a go and let y'all know how it reads.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:58 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Man. The Mormons reviewing this book have elevated Nibley to L. Ron Hubbard levels of god-like perfection.

https://www.amazon.com/Sergeant-Nibley- ... geNumber=3

All right. Challenge accepted. I just ordered the book from the library. I'll give it a go and let y'all know how it reads.

- Doc

Doc,

Please be sure to let us know how it is that Bro. Nibley manages to go over the side of a troop ship on a rope net to a landing craft with a group of tankers who are killed, then drive the general's jeep off a landing craft onto the beach, and then come to France in a glider - and especially how said glider just happened to have an "iron" plate lying on the floor especially for him to use to protect his ass.

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David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Last edited by DrW on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:01 am 
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This is my favourite Amazon review:

Quote:
[Nibley] ran into Hitler in the Latrine of a 1920's "Gausthause" where the overflow crowd who had come to listen to the future Furher were pushed into the church meeting being held next door. As a former Missionary and churchman Nibley was indeed an "unlikely" Sceaming Eagle- serving that renown division in their famous battles of Normandy and "Market Garden". This memoir comes from an angle rarely shared beyond family.


No doubt Nibley also recounted how he found time to share the gospel with Herr Hitler and baptised him in one of the sinks.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:07 am 
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Well, that ____ er better have his ducks in a row because I just requested his military service records:

Quote:
Signature Verification
Tuesday, December 26, 2017 10:01:30 AM CST Service Request Number:

National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
1 Archives Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63138-1002 2-21238212015

Attention: NPRC WEB

Service Request Number: 2-21238212015


- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:13 am 
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If anyone feels like dropping $25 for his official OMPF here you go:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research ... rm-180.pdf

Since his service was prior to 1955 his military record is open to the public. The $25 is the cost of copying his records. I'm up in the air about spending the money, but if someone else is motivated to out this Stolen Valor POS then you have my full support.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If anyone feels like dropping $25 for his official OMPF here you go:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research ... rm-180.pdf

Since his service was prior to 1955 his military record is open to the public. The $25 is the cost of copying his records. I'm up in the air about spending the money, but if someone else is motivated to out this Stolen Valor POS then you have my full support.

- Doc

Doc,

Seems as though you know how this works. If you are up for filling out the forms, I'm up for chipping in for any and all costs. If you are a go for this, please PM me with your preferred mode of payment.

DrW.

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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:46 am 
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DrW wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If anyone feels like dropping $25 for his official OMPF here you go:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research ... rm-180.pdf

Since his service was prior to 1955 his military record is open to the public. The $25 is the cost of copying his records. I'm up in the air about spending the money, but if someone else is motivated to out this Stolen Valor POS then you have my full support.

- Doc

Doc,

Seems as though you know how this works. If you are up for filling out the forms, I'm up for chipping in for any and all costs. If you are a go for this, please PM me with your preferred mode of payment.

DrW.


A'ight. I'll do it. They invoice you; it's just $25.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:50 am 
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My peepstone says a major revelation is imminent. Go, Doc!

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:07 am 
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For those wanting to read this Novel title by the nibster is "Sgt Ph.D." .


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt Nibley-another Paul Dunn?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:19 am 
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http://www.ldsliving.com/Inside-the-Bri ... ey/s/76468

Quote:
On June 6, 1944, the first-wave assault on France's Utah Beach saw "Sergeant Ph.D." Hugh Nibley driving a jeep off an Allied landing craft. The twelve men hanging onto Nibley's jeep urged their driver on as they surged out of the English Channel's waters. A jeep just ahead of them crossed over a sand knoll and was exploded into nothing by an enemy shell.

Hugh had slipped a copy of the Book of Mormon into one of his battle fatigues' pockets. "'It was right there at Utah Beach,' Nibley still vividly recalls, 'as we were all a couple feet under water, that it really hit me—­how astonishing the Book of Mormon truly is. It had never occurred to me before, as far as that goes, but all I could think of all that day was how wonderful this Book of Mormon was'" (Lehi in the Desert, Introduction, xi).


He drove a Jeep into the ocean, with 12 men hanging onto it, through the waterlogged sand, up into the beach, watched another Jeep get hit by a shell (eta: OR IT DROVE OVER A BERM AND DISAPPEARED - SHEESH), and all he could think of that day is, "Wow. That Book of Mormon is really something."

GTFO of here with that ____.

Image

Even the Mormon church is in on the lie:

https://www.LDS.org/ensign/1985/04/hugh ... n?lang=eng

Quote:
At first light on 6 June 1944, the first of many allied landing craft began hitting the beaches of Normandy. At Utah Beach, twelve men dangling from one of the emerging jeeps cheered their driver on as they surged up from beneath the surface of the chilly English Channel waters. That driver, an army intelligence officer with a Ph.D. in ancient history from the University of California at Berkeley, was none other than Hugh W. Nibley, age 34.

While preparing for the invasion, Hugh had visited several antiquarian bookstores in London—walking out with armloads of Arabic and Greek literary treasures. He had also, on the sly, slipped a copy of the Book of Mormon into one of the fifty-five pockets in his regimental intelligence corps fatigues.

“It was right there at Utah Beach,” Hugh still vividly recalls, “as we were a couple of feet under water, that it really hit me—how astonishing the Book of Mormon truly is. It had never occurred to me before, but all I could think of all that day was how wonderful this Book of Mormon was.”


What a total ____ bird. This man, and I use that term loosely, if a ____ ing liar. And the Church is right there with him. This is some serious stolen valor going on...

Image

Since I'm MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN today I'm just going to ____ post all over this thread.

- Doc


Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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