BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

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_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Hey Paul if you do write such a paper might I suggest this as an epigraph for it?

Ah no! young blade! That was a trifle short!
You might have said at least a hundred things
By varying the tone. . .like this, suppose,. . .
Aggressive: 'Sir, if I had such a nose I'd amputate it!'
Friendly: 'When you sup It must annoy you, dipping in your cup;
You need a drinking-bowl of special shape!'
Descriptive: ''Tis a rock!. . .a peak!. . .a cape! --
A cape, forsooth! 'Tis a peninsular!'
Curious: 'How serves that oblong capsular?
For scissor-sheath? Or pot to hold your ink?'
Gracious: 'You love the little birds, I think?
I see you've managed with a fond research
To find their tiny claws a roomy perch!'
Truculent: 'When you smoke your pipe. . .suppose
That the tobacco-smoke spouts from your nose--
Do not the neighbors, as the fumes rise higher,
Cry terror-struck: "The chimney is afire"?'
Considerate: 'Take care,. . .your head bowed low
By such a weight. . .lest head o'er heels you go!'
Tender: 'Pray get a small umbrella made,
Lest its bright color in the sun should fade!'
Pedantic: 'That beast Aristophanes Names Hippocamelelephantoles
Must have possessed just such a solid lump
Of flesh and bone, beneath his forehead's bump!'
Cavalier: 'The last fashion, friend, that hook?
To hang your hat on? 'Tis a useful crook!'
Emphatic: 'No wind, O majestic nose,
Can give THEE cold!--save when the mistral blows!'
Dramatic: 'When it bleeds, what a Red Sea!'
Admiring: 'Sign for a perfumery!'
Lyric: 'Is this a conch?. . .a Triton you?'
Simple: 'When is the monument on view?'
Rustic: 'That thing a nose? Marry-come-up!
'Tis a dwarf pumpkin, or a prize turnip!'
Military: 'Point against cavalry!'
Practical: 'Put it in a lottery!
Assuredly 'twould be the biggest prize!'
Or. . .parodying Pyramus' sighs. . .
'Behold the nose that mars the harmony
Of its master's phiz! blushing its treachery!'
--Such, my dear sir, is what you might have said,
Had you of wit or letters the least jot:
But, O most lamentable man!--of wit
You never had an atom, and of letters
You have three letters only!--they spell Ass!
And--had you had the necessary wit,
To serve me all the pleasantries I quote
Before this noble audience. . .e'en so,
You would not have been let to utter one--
Nay, not the half or quarter of such jest!
I take them from myself all in good part,
But not from any other man that breathes!


Excerpt from "Cyrano de Bergerac", the play by Edmond Rostand
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Shulem
_Emeritus
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Shulem »

DonBradley wrote:Paul,

Thanks for your reply.

You make a great case for Joseph Smith having overseen the removal of the snout on the printing plate, and I don't doubt that that's correct. The point I was trying to make is just that the removal of the snout and who decided to remove the snout are distinct--if highly inter-related--questions--i.e., Joseph Smith's supervision of the removal of the snout is an additional point above and beyond the fact that the snout was removed. But I see vanishingly little question that Joseph Smith ordered the removal of the snout.


When you think about it all Reuben Hedlock would have cared about is his craftsmanship and artistic ability in transforming what was on the papyrus into the lead plate of the "woodcut". That would have been his sole ambition as an artist. Every good artist wants to do a good job and remain faithful to what they are portraying. We could expect nothing less from Reuben Hedlock.

But Joseph Smith is another story. He took whatever he wanted into his own hands and wasn't afraid to represent things in whatever fashion he desired. Unlike Rueben, Smith had a vested interest in protecting his interpretation of the papyrus. Hedlock was just the artist. So, I have something further to add, that is pertinent to this specific point:

Had Smith been the actual craftsman he would have smoothed out the section where the snout was first cut to hide any impression that a snout was there in the first placed. Cover his tracks and make it look like a human head was all that was ever carved. If asked about why there was a jackal snout on the papyrus but not his carving he could have simply said that his rendition was an inspired interpretation of what was on the papyrus. For all we know he removed the vignette from public view and locked it up thinking his own Facsimile would ultimately supplant it. For all we know he may have punched a hole in the papyrus itself to hide the incriminating evidence that his so-called slave Olimlah had a jackal head which gave an impression of power and authority.

I have no doubt in my mind that Joseph Smith is responsible for the snout being removed. The impressions in the lead certainly show that a snout was original in the relief but was carved down to get rid of it. Had the surface been polished or smoothed over we would never have known the difference today. But Joseph Smith and his god did not know that Paul Osborne was going to examine the plate in high definition in the year 2017. I caught Joseph Smith red handed pulling a fast one and have demonstrated that his god does not know Egyptian, cannot read Egyptian, and cannot interpret Egyptian on any level. That is a proven fact.
_cwald
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _cwald »

Shulem wrote:My only comments about the voting outcome thus far is that I'm disappointed that more people haven't voted.

:mad:

10

What do I have to do? Get a stick out and start poking people? Jesus.

Image
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
_Shulem
_Emeritus
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Shulem »

10 Shulem
8-9 Fence Sitter
8-9 Themis
8.9 deacon blues
8-9 Philo Sofee
8-9 Sanctorian
3 abinadi_fire
9 Symmachus
3 The Dude
10 Jesse Pinkman
10 DonBradley
8-9 tana
10 Jersey Girl
10+ Doctor CamNC4Me
10 Tator
5 Res Ipsa
10 cwald
_Lemmie
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Lemmie »

Shulem wrote:10 Shulem
8-9 Fence Sitter
8-9 Themis
8.9 deacon blues
8-9 Philo Sofee
8-9 Sanctorian
3 abinadi_fire
9 Symmachus
3 The Dude
10 Jesse Pinkman
10 DonBradley
8-9 tana
10 Jersey Girl
10+ Doctor CamNC4Me
10 Tator
5 Res Ipsa
10 cwald

i realized i posted on the thread my opinion but didn't actually give a number.

To the question: Based on what you see in the enlarged woodcut plate, do you sense that there was a jackal nose originally carved and afterward removed?

If it can be based also on the likelihood of events leading up to the woodcut plate, and not just on the visual (because I'm not an expert at carving) then please add my number:

8.
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Shulem,

My vote is a solid 9.5.

And I agree with Don Bradley. You should publish your findings asap.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Quick question, Shulem.

Were any of the other characters from Fac. 3 altered in a way that fundamentally altered their meaning if taken in context of a funerary text? What about the other facsimiles? If not, then it stands to reason Anubis was altered into Olimlah to fit Joseph Smith's narrative.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Shulem
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Shulem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Quick question, Shulem.

Were any of the other characters from Fac. 3 altered in a way that fundamentally altered their meaning if taken in context of a funerary text? What about the other facsimiles? If not, then it stands to reason Anubis was altered into Olimlah to fit Joseph Smith's narrative.


Alterations to Facsimile No. 3 aren't a big issue other than the jackal snout. But alterations to Facsimile No. 2 (Hypocephalus) are blatant and literally off the scale. Joseph Smith's attempts to fill in the lucuna (empty sections) prove conclusively he didn't know what he was doing. He took material from papyri at hand and simply filled in the blanks however he pleased. His restoration of the missing sections of Facsimile No. 2 are unprofessional cartoon acts more suited for Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner.

-------------------

10 Shulem
8-9 Fence Sitter
8-9 Themis
8.9 deacon blues
8-9 Philo Sofee
8-9 Sanctorian
3 abinadi_fire
9 Symmachus
3 The Dude
10 Jesse Pinkman
10 DonBradley
8-9 tana
10 Jersey Girl
10+ Doctor CamNC4Me
10 Tator
5 Res Ipsa
10 cwald
8 Lemmie
9.5 Everybody Wang Chung
_Jesse Pinkman
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:58 am

Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Shulem,

My vote is a solid 9.5.

And I agree with Don Bradley. You should publish your findings asap.

I also agree!!

Paul, if you need help from a publishing standpoint, please PM me. I would love to help you any way I can.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
_________________
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3?? WEBSITE

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

JP,

DCP has mentioned Shulem's research a couple of times.

What does he think about Shulem's findings? Will there be a response from the Interpreter?

I know Gee has looked at Shulem's research, but as of yet, has been completly silent.

Thanks
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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