Kishkumen wrote:Well, I’m not talking about an ongoing organization so much as the original basis of the current claim to authority of the apostles. This springs from consiglieri’s discussion of the apolostolic coup. My research led me to think that the underlying authority of the apostolic claim is the Second Anointing as given in the Anointed Quorum in Nauvoo. The Nauvoo understanding of what this Anointing meant helps us understand subsequent theology surrounding the leadership and its authority, including a kind of implicit infallibility. Having received their Second Anointing, and joining a leadership group consisting of leaders with the same blessings, underlies and supports the idea that the leaders command obedience and are collectively infallible. How can a group that has received such blessings lead the members in a manner that runs contrary to God’s will?
See what I mean?
By the way, your question in the last sentence is answered by those following Snuffer, since they believe that the current leadership hasn't actually seen Christ, and therefore have not truly received the 2nd anointing and are now leading the church astray.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Right. But there is a question regarding the necessity of seeing Christ versus receiving the ordinance. Arguably the ordinance is sufficient. There is no definitively correct view of this. The Snufferites and the Brethren both have plausible arguments.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote:Well, I’m not talking about an ongoing organization so much as the original basis of the current claim to authority of the apostles. This springs from consiglieri’s discussion of the apolostolic coup. My research led me to think that the underlying authority of the apostolic claim is the Second Anointing as given in the Anointed Quorum in Nauvoo. The Nauvoo understanding of what this Anointing meant helps us understand subsequent theology surrounding the leadership and its authority, including a kind of implicit infallibility. Having received their Second Anointing, and joining a leadership group consisting of leaders with the same blessings, underlies and supports the idea that the leaders command obedience and are collectively infallible. How can a group that has received such blessings lead the members in a manner that runs contrary to God’s will?
See what I mean?
By the way, your question in the last sentence is answered by those following Snuffer, since they believe that the current leadership hasn't actually seen Christ, and therefore have not truly received the 2nd anointing and are now leading the church astray.
For the record, I think Snuffer is either deluded, crazy or a liar for having claimed to have seen Jesus Christ...or it could have just been due to having eaten some bad Mexican food.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
I see no reason to doubt that Snuffer experienced a vision. People have these experiences. Nothing obligated us to believe the content of their visions, but people do experience such things.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote:I see no reason to doubt that Snuffer experienced a vision. People have these experiences. Nothing obligated us to believe the content of their visions, but people do experience such things.
People might have a mental experience that they interpret as a vision...but that doesn't mean that a physical being from outer space or a planet near Kolob time traveled to earth.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Craig Paxton wrote:People might have a mental experience that they interpret as a vision...but that doesn't mean that a physical being from outer space or a planet near Kolob time traveled to earth.
Let’s make sure we continue to repeat that in explicit terms lest someone think we’re as crazy and stupid as we feel Denver is.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist