Quasimodo wrote:The only hope the "Church" has to add members is to proselytize in areas of the world that have little internet access. That's a large part of Africa. Even that will dwindle soon.
Faith has a way of beating back some of this. I'm sure the Church will remain with a presence in Africa, but surely at some point what you describe and others have said will really hurt the Church's chance of growing, being a great healthy presence.
The LDS church is suffering a death by a thousand cuts. Slow and painful. Knowledge and truth are the greatest enemies it has and it has no defence against them.
I also don't know that death will be the end of it. I think it'll remain in some measure. But, in order to remain and certainly to grow it'll have to make some changes, some drastic ones.
Water Dog wrote:schreech gets it right I think. it's a case of pseudo welfare, money is being handed out so of course people show up to collect. I don't really have strong opinions on whether that is good or bad as I don't know what they, the leaders, are actually doing. I don't think the growth there will serve to stabilize the US-based organization. If the church does get a solid footing over there, I think there will be a lot more questions about Race/Priesthood and they won't be able to get away with the two-faced answers provided in the essay.
I'll be quite astounded if many converts actually benefit financially from the Church in Africa. I suppose some will, some will even get jobs with the Church as the Church establishes it's presence more and more. But, most wouldn't. You would think.
Water Dog wrote:schreech gets it right I think. it's a case of pseudo welfare, money is being handed out so of course people show up to collect. I don't really have strong opinions on whether that is good or bad as I don't know what they, the leaders, are actually doing. I don't think the growth there will serve to stabilize the US-based organization. If the church does get a solid footing over there, I think there will be a lot more questions about Race/Priesthood and they won't be able to get away with the two-faced answers provided in the essay.
I'll be quite astounded if many converts actually benefit financially from the Church in Africa. I suppose some will, some will even get jobs with the Church as the Church establishes it's presence more and more. But, most wouldn't. You would think.
It's not a matter of what they get. It's what they hope to get.
And when they don't get it, and they realise they aren't going to get it ... off they go!
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I understand that the most successful Churches outside the dominant Catholic faith in South America are the Assemblies of God (Pentecostals) and the Jehovah Witnesses.
What I've been told is that they have a bit more charismatic approach to faith than the LDS who can be exceedingly stodgy. No trombone playing to make a joyous noise unto the Lord for the Mormons.
Just glad that snake handling religion of the Southern States (Church of Free Evangelical Venom) has not caught on. It would be very dangerous to start getting frisky with a giant anaconda.
moksha wrote:I understand that the most successful Churches outside the dominant Catholic faith in South America are the Assemblies of God (Pentecostals) and the Jehovah Witnesses.
What I've been told is that they have a bit more charismatic approach to faith than the LDS who can be exceedingly stodgy. No trombone playing to make a joyous noise unto the Lord for the Mormons.
Just glad that snake handling religion of the Southern States (Church of Free Evangelical Venom) has not caught on. It would be very dangerous to start getting frisky with a giant anaconda.
I think these churches started to dominate our militaristic (not cultish for sure) but well-meaning one true american church down in S. America back when I was there in the late 1980's. The battle was among the americaphiles back then because they were the ones who converted. If they didn't first like america, then we didn't have a chance. I remember some of the G.A.s barnstorming my mission, waving the flag, mentioning loudly how THE LORD chose America for the restoration and that is what we sold. I guess the pentecostals and JW's waved the flag harder than we did.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Let's give the visitor to Africa the benefit of the doubt and say that the Growth is 40% in Africa. Here is the point, SO WHAT!
The cost of a member in Africa is a negative gain. The possible tithing income of the member in Africa cannot sustain the member, let alone those members in Africa who don't pay tithing.
The gain of 100,000 active participating tithe paying African members doesn't equal the income loss of a single Intermountain West tithe paying member.
Revelation 2:17 . . give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Thank Google GOD for her son eBay, you can now have life eternal with laser engraving. . oh, and a seer stone and save 10% of your life's earning as a bonus. See you in Mormon man god Heaven Bitches!!. Bring on the Virgins
SteelHead wrote:Whatever growth the church experiences in Africa will go into freefall once the Internet proliferates the history of the church's attitude towards Africans.
I agree. Uptake of the Internet has been slower in Africa, but it is starting to accelerate. Contrary to the lies of Ballard and Oaks, the church has hidden its racist past from Africans and this will return to bite them. I would give it less than a decade and the wheels will start to fall off.
Global growth of church units this year (about 90) can largely be attributed to a single country, Nigeria. If it wasn't for Nigeria, on balance there would be no increase in the number of church units. Nigeria is single handedly masking a massive slowdown in global growth.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal." "Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
Mormonicious wrote:Let's give the visitor to Africa the benefit of the doubt and say that the Growth is 40% in Africa. Here is the point, SO WHAT!
The cost of a member in Africa is a negative gain. The possible tithing income of the member in Africa cannot sustain the member, let alone those members in Africa who don't pay tithing.
The gain of 100,000 active participating tithe paying African members doesn't equal the income loss of a single Intermountain West tithe paying member.