Oaks - Church leaders are always right.

[_Analytics]

And nobody added in the wildcard, “and if the Holy Ghost says one thing and Jesus’ leaders say something else, you should follow the leaders rather than the Holy Ghost because you’ll be blessed for being obedient?”

[_cwald]

From the mouth of several Mormon Prophets and Seers, as well as teaching manuals and official church publications.

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.

5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.

7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.

9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.

10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.

11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.

14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

[_mentalgymnast]

And nobody added in the wildcard, “and if the Holy Ghost says one thing and Jesus’ leaders say something else, you should follow the leaders rather than the Holy Ghost because you’ll be blessed for being obedient?”

This is an interesting question.

What are some examples that you can think of, say within the last three decades or so, where the GA's have unitedly said one thing and/or the First Presidency has done so independent of the Twelve Apostles, and the Holy Ghost has told/revealed to you something different and you are 100% sure your revelation came from God?

A personal example.

Regards,
MG

[_cwald]

And nobody added in the wildcard, “and if the Holy Ghost says one thing and Jesus’ leaders say something else, you should follow the leaders rather than the Holy Ghost because you’ll be blessed for being obedient?”

This is an interesting question.

What are some examples that you can think of, say within the last three decades or so, where the GA's have unitedly said one thing and/or the First Presidency has done so independent of the Twelve Apostles, and the Holy Ghost has told/revealed to you something different and you are 100% sure your revelation came from God?

A personal example.

Regards,
MG

Well, we could start with the gay marriage and kids etc...the spirit told me that the church leaders and their policies are wrong.

[_Analytics]

And nobody added in the wildcard, “and if the Holy Ghost says one thing and Jesus’ leaders say something else, you should follow the leaders rather than the Holy Ghost because you’ll be blessed for being obedient?”

This is an interesting question.

What are some examples that you can think of, say within the last three decades or so, where the GA's have unitedly said one thing and/or the First Presidency has done so independent of the Twelve Apostles, and the Holy Ghost has told/revealed to you something different and you are 100% sure your revelation came from God?

A personal example.

Regards,
MG

I don’t have a personal example that meets the exact criteria you layed out. The issue is that the GA’s never unitedly weighed in on the specific question. Neither did the First Presidency, independently of the Twelve Apostles.

As I’m sure you know, I was alluding to a story that a few decades ago was held in high regard about when Heber J. Grant told the young Marrion G. Romney:

My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.

I’m guessing people’s sensibilities have matured and this type of advice isn’t good enough anymore.

Having said all that, the closest personal example I have to something like the scenario yoiu asked about is when the Holy Ghost told me a couple of decades ago that for the well being of my daughter who was only two years old at the time, it was imperitive that I break away from the Church in a clean, total break. Despite this revelation, my personal feelings were different. I wanted to stay on the path I had already chosen. I didn’t want to be a traiter. I wanted to maintian my friends. Maintain my identity. Remain in my community. Presumably, the united voice of the GA’s would have been to stay in the Church, and “pray, pay, and obey.” That was the united voice of my stake presidency, for what it’s worth.

But from the perspective of my heart, staying in the Church then would have been like selling the name and sign of the First Token of the Aaronic priesthood for money. To me, it was crystal clear that to be obedient to the highest authority, I need to be disobedient to lower authorities.

Although I’m doing okay in life, I often think about different paths. If I could go back, I’d make many choices differently. I’d do high school differently. College differently. Career choices differently. But throughout my life there was only one decision that was crystal clear that I don’t regret for an instant. And that was the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge and enter the lone and dreary world.

And my daughter is doing amazingly well. If I would have raised her in the Church, she would likely now be fretting about how important it is for young men to serve missions and gays not to get married. But instead, she is now sensitive about things that are so much more important and real. I couldn’t be more proud.

[_Kishkumen]

Most of us are living proof that members “go rogue.” Thank goodness we do!

[_mentalgymnast]

I don’t have a personal example that meets the exact criteria you layed out. The issue is that the GA’s never unitedly weighed in on the specific question. Neither did the First Presidency, independently of the Twelve Apostles.

As I’m sure you know, I was alluding to a story that a few decades ago was held in high regard about when Heber J. Grant told the young Marrion G. Romney:

My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.

I’m guessing people’s sensibilities have matured and this type of advice isn’t good enough anymore.

Having said all that, the closest personal example I have to something like the scenario yoiu asked about is when the Holy Ghost told me a couple of decades ago that for the well being of my daughter who was only two years old at the time, it was imperitive that I break away from the Church in a clean, total break. Despite this revelation, my personal feelings were different. I wanted to stay on the path I had already chosen. I didn’t want to be a traiter. I wanted to maintian my friends. Maintain my identity. Remain in my community. Presumably, the united voice of the GA’s would have been to stay in the Church, and “pray, pay, and obey.” That was the united voice of my stake presidency, for what it’s worth.

But from the perspective of my heart, staying in the Church then would have been like selling the name and sign of the First Token of the Aaronic priesthood for money. To me, it was crystal clear that to be obedient to the highest authority, I need to be disobedient to lower authorities.

Although I’m doing okay in life, I often think about different paths. If I could go back, I’d make many choices differently. I’d do high school differently. College differently. Career choices differently. But throughout my life there was only one decision that was crystal clear that I don’t regret for an instant. And that was the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge and enter the lone and dreary world.

And my daughter is doing amazingly well. If I would have raised her in the Church, she would likely now be fretting about how important it is for young men to serve missions and gays not to get married. But instead, she is now sensitive about things that are so much more important and real. I couldn’t be more proud.

Thank you for sharing, Analytics. I read this through a few times. Interesting.

You do believe it was God that told you to leave the church then? I can think of others that believe this to be the case. One of the high profile folks being Lynn Wilder and her family. She believes they were led out by the Holy Spirit.

http://christiannews.net/2013/10/23/for ... istianity/

Did you remain a Christian?

Regards,
MG

[_Lemmie]

Having said all that, the closest personal example I have to something like the scenario yoiu asked about is when the Holy Ghost told me a couple of decades ago that for the well being of my daughter who was only two years old at the time, it was imperitive that I break away from the Church in a clean, total break. Despite this revelation, my personal feelings were different. I wanted to stay on the path I had already chosen. I didn’t want to be a traiter. I wanted to maintian my friends. Maintain my identity. Remain in my community. Presumably, the united voice of the GA’s would have been to stay in the Church, and “pray, pay, and obey.” That was the united voice of my stake presidency, for what it’s worth.

But from the perspective of my heart, staying in the Church then would have been like selling the name and sign of the First Token of the Aaronic priesthood for money. To me, it was crystal clear that to be obedient to the highest authority, I need to be disobedient to lower authorities.

Although I’m doing okay in life, I often think about different paths. If I could go back, I’d make many choices differently. I’d do high school differently. College differently. Career choices differently. But throughout my life there was only one decision that was crystal clear that I don’t regret for an instant. And that was the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge and enter the lone and dreary world.

And my daughter is doing amazingly well. If I would have raised her in the Church, she would likely now be fretting about how important it is for young men to serve missions and gays not to get married. But instead, she is now sensitive about things that are so much more important and real. I couldn’t be more proud.

That's great to hear about your daughter. You were able to put her on a totally different path, and that's an amazing accomplishment. Well done.

[_Stem]

And nobody added in the wildcard, “and if the Holy Ghost says one thing and Jesus’ leaders say something else, you should follow the leaders rather than the Holy Ghost because you’ll be blessed for being obedient?”

This is an interesting question.

What are some examples that you can think of, say within the last three decades or so, where the GA's have unitedly said one thing and/or the First Presidency has done so independent of the Twelve Apostles, and the Holy Ghost has told/revealed to you something different and you are 100% sure your revelation came from God?

A personal example.

Regards,
MG

This is kind of lame, MG. 100% sure it came from God? There is nothing foolproof about the revelation we're talking about here. We get impressions, feel things, think and ponder and draw conclusions feeling comfortable in our decisions. No one can possibly take that as 100% certain that it's from God. But then again, that also means, as per the descriptions of the revelation from the leaders hasn't been much different. And we know revelation to leaders in the past, or claimed revelation, was wrong. There is nothing foolproof in such methods. expecting anyone to be 100% certain when we are told to live by faith is just silly.

But I will add, I feel quite confident the Church and leaders are dead wrong about LBGTQ people. They used to tell us it was an affliction that needed to be cured and was possible to cure. Now they've gone back on that, of course. It seems to me they are stuck with tradition on this. They simply don't know but feel certain they have to fight, if you will, because they've been trained to think that way. Sometime down the road a new revelation will come to help save face for those who were working with less light and understanding--you know those who are speaking for God now. This type of thing has happened a few times in the Church's history.

Peace.

[_Meadowchik]

Having said all that, the closest personal example I have to something like the scenario yoiu asked about is when the Holy Ghost told me a couple of decades ago that for the well being of my daughter who was only two years old at the time, it was imperitive that I break away from the Church in a clean, total break. Despite this revelation, my personal feelings were different. I wanted to stay on the path I had already chosen. I didn’t want to be a traiter. I wanted to maintian my friends. Maintain my identity. Remain in my community. Presumably, the united voice of the GA’s would have been to stay in the Church, and “pray, pay, and obey.” That was the united voice of my stake presidency, for what it’s worth.

But from the perspective of my heart, staying in the Church then would have been like selling the name and sign of the First Token of the Aaronic priesthood for money. To me, it was crystal clear that to be obedient to the highest authority, I need to be disobedient to lower authorities.

Although I’m doing okay in life, I often think about different paths. If I could go back, I’d make many choices differently. I’d do high school differently. College differently. Career choices differently. But throughout my life there was only one decision that was crystal clear that I don’t regret for an instant. And that was the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge and enter the lone and dreary world.

And my daughter is doing amazingly well. If I would have raised her in the Church, she would likely now be fretting about how important it is for young men to serve missions and gays not to get married. But instead, she is now sensitive about things that are so much more important and real. I couldn’t be more proud.

That's great to hear about your daughter. You were able to put her on a totally different path, and that's an amazing accomplishment. Well done.

I agree. I have three teenage girls. Now I think of them trying to find a man who is a returned missionary and active in the church, especially since we live abroad and the LDS dating pool is so thin. It is scary to think how close we got to such a stupid, harmful dilemma.