r/exmormon drama

[_Craig Paxton]

Cinepro, it’s ok to admit your attempt to explain the TBMs tweet as factual fell flat. As others have pointed out, coincidence does not justify the TBMs flippant tweet. Don’t keep digging a bigger hole to justify your statements. That’s what MG does.

Now I'm interested in why people can't even acknowledge the tweet was correct. Are you saying it isn't? All I'm saying is that the outrage to the tweet seemed out of proportion to the offensiveness of the comment, and I think part of that is because the tweet was true. If it wasn't, then that would be the focus of the response.

If the attack had happened on a Saturday and a SVA tweeted that "people observing the SVA Sabbath on Saturday wouldn't have been hurt", it would be tactless and insensitive, but it would also be true.

You can also argue that there is no connection, but it is the job of religious believers to make connections between "reality" and their "doctrine." It's what they do. They also disregard contradictory evidence and statistics (for example, LDS Missionaries are given special protection from God, except when they aren't).

Have Aliens possessed your body? Stop digging. The TBM was not correct, the entire premise of his tweet was not true because it presupposes that had these people been living a Mormon sabbath that day they would not have been killed and that's simply an impossible assertion to make. Life is full of random events some violent. For his tweet to be true it would have to have a built in guarantee that living his Mormon sabbath would have guanteed their survival. It could have but it also might not have, we don't know. Life is random. Living the sabbath has no bearing on subjecting each and everyone of us to random events some of which could subject us to a violent death. And unless he can guarantee that living his version of the sabbath can prevent death by violent means then his assertion is false. These people could have just as easily been in church that day in an LDS chapel no less keeping the Mormon sabbath, had the killer decided it instead target that ward, would keeping the sabbath had saved them? No...ergo keeping the sabbath does not keep one safe from a violent end and this my friend, is why that TBM is an asshole for making his false assertion.

[_fetchface]

Good point, Craig.

I was also thinking that "keeping the Sabbath day holy" is highly subjective. It is totally feasible that many of these country music fans feel that attending a concert is a holy activity and brings them closer to God. After all, country music often features religious themes.

[_cinepro]

Living the sabbath has no bearing on subjecting each and everyone of us to random events some of which could subject us to a violent death. And unless he can guarantee that living his version of the sabbath can prevent death by violent means then his assertion is false. These people could have just as easily been in church that day in an LDS chapel no less keeping the Mormon sabbath, had the killer decided it instead target that ward, would keeping the sabbath had saved them? No...ergo keeping the sabbath does not keep one safe from a violent end and this my friend, is why that TBM is an asshole for making his false assertion.

That's not what the tweet said. It was a specific comment about a specific event.

I agree that if he had said "All those who obey the Sabbath will forever avoid violent death", it would be almost certainly incorrect. And there are certainly many hypothetical situations where people die violent deaths while keeping the Sabbath (and real ones, like this awful incident from a few years ago).

But regarding the specific events in Las Vegas, it is true to say that to the degree that attending country music concerts is against the LDS idea of keeping the Sabbath day "holy" (which it almost certainly is), then those who stayed home would have avoided the violence.

If what he said simply wasn't true, then the responses hopefully would have focused on pointing out why what he said wasn't true.

For example, if the tragedy had happened on a Saturday night and an LDS tweeted "If the victims were observing the Sabbath starting on sundown on Saturday like they should, they would have been safe", then the obvious response would have been "Dude, you're an idiot and LDS start the Sabbath on Sunday morning, or midnight on Saturday at the earliest. No one was violating the LDS sabbath at the time of the shooting."

But since it is true, we have to vent our anger and outrage in other ways in order to keep from having to admit it.

[_Fifth Columnist]

I agree with Cinepro that the TBM's Facebook post was technically correct unless someone can find some support for the idea that attending the harvest festival is an approved Sunday activity.

Does it mean the post was insensitive/offensive? Yes, because it implies that those who attended the festival were disobeying God's commandment and, therefore, put themselves in harms way albeit unknowingly. It almost comes across as if their disobedience slightly justifies their deaths, although I'm pretty sure almost all TBMs, including the poster, would not agree that their deaths actually are justified ... but <I can hear the TBM thinking> you have to admit that if they would have obeyed God's commands they wouldn't have been killed.

Of course, this analysis never goes the other direction. If a missionary dies on his mission in a car accident, Mormons never say "if he wouldn't have gone on a mission, he wouldn't have died in that car accident." Instead, they say "it was his time. God needed him more in heaven than on Earth." Hmm, I wonder if ExMos would say "if he wouldn't have gone on a mission, he wouldn't have died in that car accident." If they do, I wonder how that is different than the TBM's Facebook post.

[_fetchface]

I agree with Cinepro that the TBM's Facebook post was technically correct unless someone can find some support for the idea that attending the harvest festival is an approved Sunday activity.

Approved by whom? I think it is totally reasonable that many attending thought that God approved of them going to the concert that day. All Jehovah says is to keep the day holy, which isn't exactly specific.

Many churches are more specific but they are adding their own words to Jehovah's.

[_canpakes]

Well, then - let's just all get on board with this sort of 'technical truth', because it is so very useful.

I'm sure that the parents of 20-year-old shooting victim Quinton Robbins will rejoice in hearing such sentiments, given that their family is LDS. Robbins is dead now, so let's make sure that we use this event to guilt as many members as possible into being at Sacrament next Sunday.