Former Stake President Excommunicated for being a woman.

[_Jersey Girl]

Let's call this what it is. The comments/assertions that my made below.

Our current research study is recruiting children aged 3–12 who are transgender, gen­der non­con­form­ing, and sib­lings of gen­der non­con­form­ing chil­dren. We are recruit­ing fam­i­lies from across the U.S. and Canada for this lon­gi­tu­di­nal study. For more spe­cific infor­ma­tion about the project, please con­tact Dr. Kristina Olson at transyp@uw.edu, the prin­ci­pal inves­ti­ga­tor, or sign up online via the Par­tic­i­pate tab above. All sign-ups and con­tact information are treated confidentially.

AGED THREE!!!!! This is insanity. You're going to give a three year old chemicals to alter their normal physiological development while brainwashing them with all sorts of sexual ideas? Oh, but Kristina Olson says don't worry about it and requests access to your child for her research project. Anybody who acts like this could not have a hugely negative impact is a total idiot. This is like Nazis doing medical experiments on jewish prisoners. It will be 50 years before we really understand the effects of this, probably in the wake of our civilization's total collapse.

Are defamatory LIES.

[_Jersey Girl]

According to Kristina Olson (associate professor of psychology and the founder and director of the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington) and Lily Durwood (project coordinator at the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington), it's a non-issue that is used as a smoke-screen to advocate against affirmative transgender care... [SLATE ARTICLE]

Yeah, that's credible. Experts like the chief of psychiatry at johns hopkins says its an issue, but what the heck do they know? Nothing apparently. Looking up the TransYouth project I see this...

Lemmie was right on her game and on point when she brought in the above quote.

[_Jersey Girl]

My questions posed had to do with the study you referenced and responded to, and exactly nothing else. Nicole Maines has exactly nothing to do with the study.

You don't know what a longitudinal study is.
You can't read, interpret and apply, the credentials spelled out in the excerpt you were responding to.
You cherry picked a portion of their website instead of noting who/what department is doing the study itself.

You're either ignorant or you're disingenuous as all get out.

You said, and I quote.

Where in the above (or anywhere else)

No, I didn't you disingenuous hack and that's not a quote. That's a partial cherry picked quote.

I said this:

Where in the above (or anywhere else) do you see an indication that the proposed study is going to give chemicals to three year olds?

Quit debating the straw man. We're discussing a topic broadly... and the broad issue is treatment of minors. We are not discussing the narrow subject of this particular study and what it does or doesn't specifically entail. You don't get to point to one form of treatment and act like it's the only one out there. There are a ton of studies out there and they ARE giving drugs to kids, period, it's not a point of debate. An honest person having an honest discussion would concede my point and admit, yes, kids ARE being given drugs. As young as 3 they are being given drugs, and prior to puberty they are being pumped full of chemicals to block puberty from happening. Why must you be such a nasty person and make this into a fight?

At this point, I'm not going to quit anything, much less am I going to quit challenging your intellectually dishonest lies, attributions and misrepresentations.

[_Jersey Girl]

At this point, I'm not going to quit anything, much less am I going to quit challenging your intellectually dishonest lies, attributions and misrepresentations.

So you are claiming that no minor, anywhere, at any time, is ever given any drugs of any kind in the course of their transgender treatment? All children expressing transgender feelings are allowed to fully develop into adulthood without any interference whatsoever? A simple yes or no, please. Yes or no, are they given drugs or not?

I'm claiming that you can't respond on point to the posts and material that you yourself are responding to.
I'm claiming that you're disingenuous.

The recent quotes I've used are those you've made specifically in reference to the longitudinal study.

I'm claiming that you comments are blatant defamatory lies.

I'm further claiming that I'm not going to quit anything much less challenging your "intellectually dishonest lies, attributions, and misrepresentations."

Full quote's right at the top. If you're able to identify a full quote.

[_Jersey Girl]

Blah blah, refuses to answer question.

Let's try this again.

Jersey Girl, are minors, anywhere, at any time, ever given any drugs of any kind in the course of their transgender treatment? Are all children expressing transgender feelings allowed to fully develop into mature adulthood naturally without any interference whatsoever? A simple yes or no, please. Yes or no, are they given drugs or not?

Your question is irrelevant to our current exchanges.

Our current exchanges involve your defamatory remarks and lies that were specifically in reference to the TransYouth longitudinal study and the professor behind it, Dr. Olson.

It does no good to attempt to misdirect the exchanges. Unless you believe that I'll follow you into the derail.

[_Jersey Girl]

AGED THREE!!!!! This is insanity. You're going to give a three year old chemicals to alter their normal physiological development while brainwashing them with all sorts of sexual ideas? Oh, but Kristina Olson says don't worry about it and requests access to your child for her research project. Anybody who acts like this could not have a hugely negative impact is a total idiot. This is like Nazis doing medical experiments on jewish prisoners. It will be 50 years before we really understand the effects of this, probably in the wake of our civilization's total collapse.

Lies


Defamation

[_Lemmie]

According to Kristina Olson (associate professor of psychology and the founder and director of the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington) and Lily Durwood (project coordinator at the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington), it's a non-issue that is used as a smoke-screen to advocate against affirmative transgender care:

Despite the focus of most of the recent articles on prepubescent children, nearly all of these pieces raise alarm about medical intervention. Our experience is that everyone gets nervous when 5-year-olds are mentioned in the same sentence or paragraph as hormones and surgery—and for good reason. Once again, though, care is needed in interpretation. First, and most critically, the only intervention that is being made with prepubescent transgender children is a social, reversible, non-medical one—allowing a child to change pronouns, hairstyles, clothes, and a first name in everyday life. No one in mainstream medicine (or elsewhere, to our knowledge) is performing surgery on or providing hormones to prepubescent transgender children. Thus, sentences such as Soh’s, “We don’t allow children to vote or get tattoos, yet in the name of progressive thinking we are allowing them to choose serious biomedical interventions with permanent and irreversible results” are simply irrelevant to the discussion of social transitions and prepubescent children.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016 ... wrong.html

But pubescent kids are getting hormonal treatment? I am curious because the issues of eligibility for various responsibilities is fairly arbitrary, and yet we seem very culturally committed to the protected class of "child." We postpone drinking age until 21, but we allow children drivers at 16. The whole thing is kind of messy and results in its own fair share of injustices and silly outcomes. At what age is hormonal treatment deemed OK?

Here is a random article I pulled from the internet:

Furthermore, the use of pubertal blockers does not begin until the patient reaches Tanner Stage 2, and the use of cross-sex hormones typically does not begin until age 16 years old. This allows time for the child to work with a mental health therapist to confirm their gender identity. Finally, children who have gender dysphoria beginning at puberty or persisting after puberty generally have persistent gender dysphoria in adulthood.

I note that Tanner Stage II ranges from 8 to 15 years of age.

See http://www.mdedge.com/pediatricnews/article/109858/mental-health/how-young-too-young-optimal-age-transitioning-transgender

I agree about age limits, I have two late teen sons and the age restrictions and placements on various things they still face is just bizarre sometimes. Seeing my 19 year old, 6'2", passes-for-late-20's son trying to fit himself onto a pediatric gurney in the peds ward (ER visit, nothing too serious, thankfully) makes my eyes roll--he has two more years to go before he is considered not a "child patient." At least it entertained the nurses!

Anyway, back to the specifics of the age guidelines, maybe EAllusion can weigh in here, based on some early posts in this thread he and his partner clearly have some front line experience regarding this issue.

[_Jersey Girl]

Your question is irrelevant to our current exchanges.

No, you just want to obfuscate.

Let's try this once more.

Jersey Girl, are minors, anywhere, at any time, ever given any drugs of any kind in the course of their transgender treatment? Are all children expressing transgender feelings allowed to fully develop into mature adulthood naturally without any interference whatsoever? A simple yes or no, please. Yes or no, are they given drugs or not?

If you don't answer explicitly with "no" this is equivalent to a tacit "yes." There is no logical reason to refuse answering the question. You are acussing me of "lying" because I claim kids are being given drugs to interefere with their natural development. This isn't complicated. I'm either right or I'm wrong. This question directly pertains to your accusation.

The only way for you to prove me wrong is by answering the question. If you can prove that kids aren't given drugs, that proves me wrong. If you can further prove that I knew it to be wrong but made the claim anyway, that would make me a liar. If you can't, that makes you a liar.

Keep lugging those goal posts around.

[_Jersey Girl]

A vivid reminder of your lies and defamation.

According to Kristina Olson (associate professor of psychology and the founder and director of the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington) and Lily Durwood (project coordinator at the TransYouth Project at the University of Washington), it's a non-issue that is used as a smoke-screen to advocate against affirmative transgender care... [SLATE ARTICLE]

Yeah, that's credible. Experts like the chief of psychiatry at johns hopkins says its an issue, but what the heck do they know? Nothing apparently. Looking up the TransYouth project I see this...

Our current research study is recruiting children aged 3–12 who are transgender, gen­der non­con­form­ing, and sib­lings of gen­der non­con­form­ing chil­dren. We are recruit­ing fam­i­lies from across the U.S. and Canada for this lon­gi­tu­di­nal study. For more spe­cific infor­ma­tion about the project, please con­tact Dr. Kristina Olson at transyp@uw.edu, the prin­ci­pal inves­ti­ga­tor, or sign up online via the Par­tic­i­pate tab above. All sign-ups and con­tact information are treated confidentially.

AGED THREE!!!!! This is insanity. You're going to give a three year old chemicals to alter their normal physiological development while brainwashing them with all sorts of sexual ideas? Oh, but Kristina Olson says don't worry about it and requests access to your child for her research project. Anybody who acts like this could not have a hugely negative impact is a total idiot. This is like Nazis doing medical experiments on jewish prisoners. It will be 50 years before we really understand the effects of this, probably in the wake of our civilization's total collapse.

Are children in this longitudinal study ages 3-12 being administered chemicals to alter their normal physiological development?

Does Olson want access to the children for the purpose of administering chemicals to minors in order to alter their normal physiological development?

Those are your lies.
Those are you defamatory comments.

[_Kishkumen]

The idea of the child is a great tool for sparking emotional meltdowns. I am not immune to its power. Propagandists of many stripes have used phony stories about child murder and the sale of baby parts to push their agenda. Such stories were used to drum up support for the invasion of Iraq. Hey, I am concerned about the children and I tend to lose it when children seem threatened, but let's try to examine this issue with cooler heads. Don't fall for the old ruse of "atypically gendered people preying on your innocent kids." It's really ugly.