A 12 year olds sexuality is political, apparently...

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_Xenophon
_Emeritus
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Re: A 12 year olds sexuality is political, apparently...

Post by _Xenophon »

I have a question wrote:
Fast and Testimony Meeting

Fast and testimony meetings are held once a month, usually the first Sunday. Generally, babies are blessed on that day. After the sacrament, the conducting brother bears a brief testimony. He then invites members to bear brief, heartfelt testimonies of the Savior, His teachings, and the Restoration. Parents and teachers should help children learn what a testimony is and when it is appropriate for them to express it. Younger children should learn to share their testimonies at home or in Primary until they are old enough to bear an appropriate testimony unaided in fast and testimony meeting.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2004/08/wors ... g=eng&_r=1

She did nothing wrong.
She was expressing her heartfelt testimony about herself and her Saviour.

Her mic was cut off because of homophobia and an inbuilt intolerance towards diversity.
Combined with volunteer leadership and ineffective guidance and training from a ridiculously narrow minded nepotistically concocted leadership group.


Even if you believe she wasn't fully testifying of the Savior there are plenty of other descriptors of what fast and testimony is supposed to be about that fit well within Savannah's testimony. I shared my favorite one over on the other thread discussing this topic.

Xenophon wrote:Here is also a nice little excerpt from "Fast and Testimony Meeting" in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism

EOM wrote:After the Sacrament has been administered, the person conducting the meeting expresses his testimony, then invites the members of the congregation of all ages to do likewise. Sometimes they stand in place to speak; at other times they come forward to the pulpit. Each one arises, as prompted by the Spirit, and addresses the congregation extemporaneously. In this setting feelings of profoundest concern are often expressed: appreciation of good family relationships, thanksgiving for the blessings of the gospel, recognition of significant changes in lives, and the fruits of obedience. A faith-promoting experience may be shared or a witness given regarding a point of doctrine or attesting divine inspiration. Such expressions are usually concluded by a prayer or petition in the name of the Lord. The experience is at once enlightening, sobering, and moving. Tears are not uncommon amid acknowledgment of weaknesses and efforts to improve, along with gratitude for divine goodness.
Bolding mine, of course. Does her testimony not fall into this category as well?
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_Chap
_Emeritus
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Re: A 12 year olds sexuality is political, apparently...

Post by _Chap »

Lemmie wrote:Good point, Chap. However, although similar words are used, "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church," in my experience they don't say "I have faith in," or as Mormons say, "I know the Church is true." Mormons mean something entirely different.


I'm sorry, but I am here to bear my testimony that the explanations I was given repeatedly of what one meant by the 'I believe' statements in the Creeds (which I have recited too many times to think of enumerating) were precisely along the lines of 'I believe' meaning 'I have faith in <thing referred to>'. And Liddell and Scott's Lexicon gives 'trust, put faith in, rely on a person, thing, or statement' as its first sense of the word Πιστεύω, the Greek word in the Creed usually translated as 'Believe'.

I do agree that the peculiar 'I know that' formula is wholly a Mormon thing. But I was replying to your statement that:

And in my experience, no Catholic states they "have faith in the Catholic Church," expressing faith in a church is pretty unique to Mormons.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
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Re: A 12 year olds sexuality is political, apparently...

Post by _Lemmie »

Chap wrote:
Lemmie wrote:Good point, Chap. However, although similar words are used, "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church," in my experience they don't say "I have faith in," or as Mormons say, "I know the Church is true." Mormons mean something entirely different.


I'm sorry, but I am here to bear my testimony that the explanations I was given repeatedly of what one meant by the 'I believe' statements in the Creeds (which I have recited too many times to think of enumerating) were precisely along the lines of 'I believe' meaning 'I have faith in <thing referred to>'. And Liddell and Scott's Lexicon gives 'trust, put faith in, rely on a person, thing, or statement' as its first sense of the word Πιστεύω, the Greek word in the Creed usually translated as 'Believe'.

I do agree that the peculiar 'I know that' formula is wholly a Mormon thing. But I was replying to your statement that:

And in my experience, no Catholic states they "have faith in the Catholic Church," expressing faith in a church is pretty unique to Mormons.


Personally, I never felt that what I learned about "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church," had any similarity to what a Mormon means when reciting "I know the church is true," which is what I was basing my opinion on, but I take your point.

I learned my Catholicism later in life (from a really serious nun who knew I wanted to marry a Catholic!) and I am in no way a Roman Catholic scholar, so I defer to you in terms of the Catechism language and meaning.
_sunstoned
_Emeritus
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Re: A 12 year olds sexuality is political, apparently...

Post by _sunstoned »

Truth cuts its own way. You can see it here. In this situation, it is a brave twelve year old girl who is right.
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