Upset by Elder Holland Story

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_mentalgymnast
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Aristotle Smith wrote:Why didn't the bishop realize that by not accepting what the people proposed he was showing that he didn't trust people to receive answers to prayer and that he was possibly causing people to lose faith in their ability to receive "the right answers?"


That is a valid point.

Regards,
MG
_schreech
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _schreech »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
All roads lead back to the teachings of Jesus Christ.


I don't think that Elder Holland is teaching anything that disagrees and/or contradicts this.

Regards,
MG


Whatever road led you to be a "yes"-man-apologist for a bunch of out of touch old pseudo-religious corporate executives should really be reevaluated. You hit a dead end a LONG time ago and should consider turning around...The fact that you don't see how repugnant it is that you spend your days trying to shed the tripe these tools spew in the best light possible (and even then their "lessons" are still noxious) is just sad. You just need it to be true so bad, turn around! You have hit a dead end... don't worry, its all part of gods plan anyway (according to this leader you blindly follow).
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
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_mentalgymnast
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _mentalgymnast »

sock puppet wrote:Taking Holland's story at face value, what did they do differently because of god. They came to a fork in the road. They made a choice. The followed it. When 400 yards later it was a dead end, they backtracked to the fork and with confidence from knowing the first choice was the wrong one, then took the other road. Seems to be what people do all the time, without god.


That's true. And that does make it all the more difficult to determine when/where/why God might be involved in that process. That He can be involved in one way or the other along the way isn't something that I would conclusively 'write off'.

Regards,
MG
_schreech
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _schreech »

mentalgymnast wrote:
That's true. And that does make it all the more difficult to determine when/where/why God might be involved in that process. That He can be involved in one way or the other along the way isn't something that I would conclusively 'write off'.

Regards,
MG


Yea, its almost as if god wasn't involved at all, except he might have been. We just arent sure and have no way really telling....So, of course, make sure you follow the teachings of the leaders of the Mormon church because god. And because they say so and any choice you make might be god guiding you and make sure you pay your tithing...god might want you to do that, but maybe not, but probably because the leaders say they speak for god even though they might not and they may even be on the wrong road. But keep paying.
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Dr Exiled »

mentalgymnast wrote:
sock puppet wrote:Taking Holland's story at face value, what did they do differently because of god. They came to a fork in the road. They made a choice. The followed it. When 400 yards later it was a dead end, they backtracked to the fork and with confidence from knowing the first choice was the wrong one, then took the other road. Seems to be what people do all the time, without god.


That's true. And that does make it all the more difficult to determine when/where/why God might be involved in that process. That He can be involved in one way or the other along the way isn't something that I would conclusively 'write off'.

Regards,
MG


Holland is basically saying that god sometimes misleads us as an answer to prayer. Doesn't that bother you? How can you trust a god like that? Or is it more evidence that these doddos don't know what they are talking about?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Chap
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Chap »

mental gymnast wrote:... That [the Mormon deity] can be involved in one way or the other along the way isn't something that I would conclusively 'write off'.


If your child asks for bread, will you give him a stone? If he asks for fish, will you give him a serpent? Or so Someone once asked.

Well, a lot of the time, stones and serpents does seem to be all that is on the menu in the Mormon deity's diner. Or, as in the example quoted above, calorie-free froth.

Would you like fries with that?

(I do wonder - really I do - how mentalgymnast can summon up the chutzpah to respond to a post like consiglieri's in this vapid manner. It is simply degrading to read.)
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Chap wrote:
(I do wonder - really I do - how mentalgymnast can summon up the chutzpah to respond to a post like consiglieri's in this vapid manner. It is simply degrading to read.)


Amen!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Tator
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Tator »

Chap wrote:(I do wonder - really I do - how mentalgymnast can summon up the chutzpah to respond to a post like consiglieri's in this vapid manner. It is simply degrading to read.)


Well because MG is a unique eunuch for the church.
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_Lemmie
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Lemmie »

Chap wrote:
mental gymnast wrote:... That [the Mormon deity] can be involved in one way or the other along the way isn't something that I would conclusively 'write off'.


If your child asks for bread, will you give him a stone? If he asks for fish, will you give him a serpent? Or so Someone once asked.

Well, a lot of the time, stones and serpents does seem to be all that is on the menu in the Mormon deity's diner. Or, as in the example quoted above, calorie-free froth.

Would you like fries with that?

(I do wonder - really I do - how mentalgymnast can summon up the chutzpah to respond to a post like consiglieri's in this vapid manner. It is simply degrading to read.)

Agreed. These are the stock answers given to explain, but I'm not getting a sense that they are the end result of a thought process, but rather a case of the required conclusion having to be explained after the fact.

And consider this:
The thing is, if life is meant to be a place of testing/faith...there is going to be a certain sense of ambiguity 'built' into the system...

Why is that? Why does a "sense of ambiguity" have to be built in? I think of this in terms of teaching my students. I want my students to learn, I make it as clear as possible what they need to learn, and I am completely open about how I will test their ability to explain what they have learned. I am open that it is not easy, but I am also completely open about the level of competence I expect. My classes are difficult and students have to work very hard to get an A, no question, but we're not talking about hard work here, we're talking about being prepared for a test but failing for the sole reason that the questions were "ambiguous," and then calling that failure a good thing because it is supposedly part of the process.

Why, if I care for my students, would I build ambiguity, simply for ambiguity's sake, into the learning process? That would be mean and petty of me as a teacher. This after the fact explanation of ambiguity from God is the same.
_Lloyd Dobler
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Re: Upset by Elder Holland Story

Post by _Lloyd Dobler »

I have a question wrote:Let's apply the moral of Hollands story.

God tells you the Book of Mormon is 'true' so that years later you'll know for sure that it is false.

Have I applied the mechanics of the tale correctly?


lolololololololololololol

yes. i think you have
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