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 Post subject: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:22 am 
Going by the FAIR conference notes provided on the Maxwell Institue blog, it appears that the apologists are launching yet another online endeavor.

Closing remarks from Daniel Peterson at the bottom of the page.

I believe these are notes and not word for word what was said.
Quote:
But we still need to go online to defend the faith. Platform for the new apologetics: “The Word Table” website. We need an army of people to preach the gospel, it doesn’t mean apologetics in the conventional sense. Not everyone is an expert on all issues. A lot of it is just about presenting the gospel as an option that makes sense in your life. Answering a few questions, building up the positives in your life, is the way.

Suppose you heard a shocking report about someone, it matters whether you’ve had personal experience with the person. If you’ve had poor experience, the new news doesn’t really challenge what you already thought. If you know them as good, it is odd. Doesn’t seem consistent. You are more likely to find out more, give benefit of the doubt. This is similar to thoughts on the Book of Mormon. If you already have a deep relationship with the text, new reports will be weaker. Apologists need to build up the positives ahead of time, talk about why gospel means a great deal to us, find those inclined to accept our witness.

The World Table is a place where members of the Church can become army of apologists, to share testimony, share videos, combine resources, links of articles you like, etc. It isn’t about brilliance or being an expert. Everyone has a unique background, you can connect with someone that no one else can. Worth of souls is great in God’s sight. World Table an exciting place to do this. People have to disclose who they are, removes the masks people can wear to say anything they want. All must identify. Then you have to agree to the terms of discussion. You must disclose where you stand. Agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Christian, etc. Also politically etc. so people know where you’re coming from. Then agree to “the way of openness.” Listen, answer tough questions, give credit, speak only for yourself, keep private private, etc. Let’s say I want to comment on the recent comments from the Pope on homosexual priests? I can rate people. Was he honest, knowledgeable, fair, likable, etc. Other people can evaluate my comment. Comments can be critiqued in return. You can block people with low ratings from your conversations. This is a place where if people continue to be, to use the technical term, jackasses, they won’t be well thought-of. People tend to want high ratings. Maybe it will elevate their approach. Peggy Fletcher-stack talked about the comments to her articles, she doesn’t read because they are toxic.

This is in the process of beta testing. You can go to the beta testing now at http://www.theworldtable.org. We’re looking for normal users and computer geeks to see how the website works. This can revolutionize communication on the web. People out there really want good communication. Not really a replacement of the old apologetics all together. there is a bunch of stuff out there already, and it will continue, but that isn’t all there is. Not just intellectual issues. Need whole-souled LDS to go out and share their experiences. I bear my testimony that the Lord wants you to do this, we should use every tool we have. Thanks for supporting FAIR, a wonderful organization, you can help in so many ways including donating or participating with your own voice, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.


The notes are a little garbled at times, but I think you can get the gist of it.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:43 am 
God
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After all the pumping and puffing, it sounds like another Mormon forum to me. Heavily moderated, easily manipulated, complete redundant. Is this an advance or actually a retreat? :wink:

What happens when the Mopos start fighting with each other over the LGT, Adam/God, Book of Abraham, etc? That'll be good. And then the existing forums and blogs will risk losing traffic. Interesting times.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:04 am 
Maksutov wrote:
After all the pumping and puffing, it sounds like another Mormon forum to me. Heavily moderated, easily manipulated, complete redundant. Is this an advance or actually a retreat? :wink:

What happens when the Mopos start fighting with each other over the LGT, Adam/God, Book of Abraham, etc? That'll be good. And then the existing forums and blogs will risk losing traffic. Interesting times.


I was thinking the same thing. Since this was the FAIR conference I guess this means they are launching basically a new iteration of a FAIR discussion forum. An exclusively pro-Mormon forum where you have to hand over your real identity to participate.
I wonder if FAIR and MD&D will exchange IP address notes.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:11 am 
God
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Stormy Waters wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
After all the pumping and puffing, it sounds like another Mormon forum to me. Heavily moderated, easily manipulated, complete redundant. Is this an advance or actually a retreat? :wink:

What happens when the Mopos start fighting with each other over the LGT, Adam/God, Book of Abraham, etc? That'll be good. And then the existing forums and blogs will risk losing traffic. Interesting times.


I was thinking the same thing. Since this was the FAIR conference I guess this means they are launching basically a new iteration of a FAIR discussion forum. An exclusively pro-Mormon forum where you have to hand over your real identity to participate.
I would if FAIR and MD&D will exchange IP address notes.


It would be built with FAIR's ideas and objectives and FAIR's favorite people. That sounds like the "World Table" is the "FAIR World", which I recall is like a really s****y stupid version of Disney World. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:47 am 
God
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Quote:
People have to disclose who they are, removes the masks people can wear to say anything they want. All must identify. Then you have to agree to the terms of discussion. You must disclose where you stand. Agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Christian, etc. Also politically etc. so people know where you’re coming from.


Why? The only people this could possibly matter to are, "to use the technical term, jackasses."


Quote:
I can rate people. Was he honest, knowledgeable, fair, likable, etc. Other people can evaluate my comment. Comments can be critiqued in return. You can block people with low ratings from your conversations. This is a place where if people continue to be, to use the technical term, jackasses, they won’t be well thought-of. People tend to want high ratings. Maybe it will elevate their approach.


Why doesn't this work at MDDB then? Why did the TIME/Lightbox debacle happen? Why were there even inane, baiting, insider smear comments on the NYT/Mattesson article? The worst offenders are quite often ones who are happy to use their real names and identities (as proved in many online contexts, not just LDS ones).

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:00 am 
God
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Quote:
People have to disclose who they are, removes the masks people can wear to say anything they want. All must identify.


This can't be accomplished without requiring a valid photo I.D., a driver's license etc., a world wide government-linked database, and maybe an eye scanner on your monitor. Perhaps Microsoft will lend them their new Xbox technology.

:lol:

I don't think we need to take off any masks. We merely need to judge what is being said and cast our ballots like we always do in a democracy. Otherwise, I think having more apologetic sites is fine.

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Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:08 am 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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These new developments are absolutely splendid: I'm going to be biting my knuckles in anticipation of the launch of this. Of course, I agree wholeheartedly with what others have already said--particularly Blixa. But to say that this is ill-conceived is a massive understatement. You can see all of DCP's old obsessions playing out in the planning and design of this thing: he clearly thinks that Mopologetics will at last emerge victorious if (a) people are forced to use their real names; (b) they have to openly announce their politics and religious standing (???); and (c) he can turn the whole thing into a popularity contest where the unpleasant critics are "voted off the island."

This quote is absolute gold: "People tend to want high ratings."

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:22 am 
Charlatan
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Stormy Waters wrote:
Going by the FAIR conference notes provided on the Maxwell Institue blog, it appears that the apologists are launching yet another online endeavor.

Closing remarks from Daniel Peterson at the bottom of the page.

I believe these are notes and not word for word what was said.
Quote:
But we still need to go online to defend the faith. Platform for the new apologetics: “The Word Table” website. We need an army of people to preach the gospel, it doesn’t mean apologetics in the conventional sense. Not everyone is an expert on all issues. A lot of it is just about presenting the gospel as an option that makes sense in your life. Answering a few questions, building up the positives in your life, is the way.

Suppose you heard a shocking report about someone, it matters whether you’ve had personal experience with the person. If you’ve had poor experience, the new news doesn’t really challenge what you already thought. If you know them as good, it is odd. Doesn’t seem consistent. You are more likely to find out more, give benefit of the doubt. This is similar to thoughts on the Book of Mormon. If you already have a deep relationship with the text, new reports will be weaker. Apologists need to build up the positives ahead of time, talk about why gospel means a great deal to us, find those inclined to accept our witness.

The World Table is a place where members of the Church can become army of apologists, to share testimony, share videos, combine resources, links of articles you like, etc. It isn’t about brilliance or being an expert. Everyone has a unique background, you can connect with someone that no one else can. Worth of souls is great in God’s sight. World Table an exciting place to do this. People have to disclose who they are, removes the masks people can wear to say anything they want. All must identify. Then you have to agree to the terms of discussion. You must disclose where you stand. Agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Christian, etc. Also politically etc. so people know where you’re coming from. Then agree to “the way of openness.” Listen, answer tough questions, give credit, speak only for yourself, keep private private, etc. Let’s say I want to comment on the recent comments from the Pope on homosexual priests? I can rate people. Was he honest, knowledgeable, fair, likable, etc. Other people can evaluate my comment. Comments can be critiqued in return. You can block people with low ratings from your conversations. This is a place where if people continue to be, to use the technical term, jackasses, they won’t be well thought-of. People tend to want high ratings. Maybe it will elevate their approach. Peggy Fletcher-stack talked about the comments to her articles, she doesn’t read because they are toxic.

This is in the process of beta testing. You can go to the beta testing now at http://www.theworldtable.org. We’re looking for normal users and computer geeks to see how the website works. This can revolutionize communication on the web. People out there really want good communication. Not really a replacement of the old apologetics all together. there is a bunch of stuff out there already, and it will continue, but that isn’t all there is. Not just intellectual issues. Need whole-souled LDS to go out and share their experiences. I bear my testimony that the Lord wants you to do this, we should use every tool we have. Thanks for supporting FAIR, a wonderful organization, you can help in so many ways including donating or participating with your own voice, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.


Quote:
I can rate people. Was he honest, knowledgeable, fair, likable, etc. Other people can evaluate my comment. Comments can be critiqued in return. You can block people with low ratings from your conversations


This appears to be a organized slam fest on any critic that dares rock the "intent and theme" of the forum.

I will venture to guess (bet my home on it), that DCP and whom ever the forums "top dogs" are, will have the highest ratings and those that question will be mocked and scorned with the lowest ratings. Can you imagine if MADB had a rating system?

There will be more debate about..." Was he honest, knowledgeable, fair, likable, etc..." than points of interest.

What would be awesome if ..."Agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Christian, etc." each had moderation "authority."

CARM has a system like this (reputation points) and Mormons there never receive a fair shake in this regards, and more folks get "rep points" for putting someone down and "winning the argument" other than making a objective sound point.

If this forum allows folks like those here to post it will be no different that MADB. If it only allows Mormon friendly posts...it will just be un-checked faith promotion.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:34 am 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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The notes are rich with fascinating quotes:

DCP wrote:
One of most cynical lines in scripture is v. 20, therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him, thirst, give drink, for in so doing you heap coals of fire on his head. I love that, appeals to my vengeful side.


I was glad to see him (at last) admitting how angry he gets:

Quote:
I went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant and seeing an anti-Mormon harangue two young kids. I’d vowed not to talk to them, but I stepped in anyway. I sat down with steam coming out of my ears. I don’t even recall the pageant.


So angry that he couldn't even remember the show. Wow. Many of us have observed for years that the Mopologists are motivated at least in part by anger, only to be met with mocking laughter and blithe dismissals. You remember the "jokey" avatar signature, "Seething Cauldron of Hate"?

Well, let's just say that I'm glad to have the truth come out at last.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:31 am 
God
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
So angry that he couldn't even remember the show. Wow. Many of us have observed for years that the Mopologists are motivated at least in part by anger, only to be met with mocking laughter and blithe dismissals. You remember the "jokey" avatar signature, "Seething Cauldron of Hate"?

Well, let's just say that I'm glad to have the truth come out at last.


Excellent catch, Dr. Scratch.

So Daniel C. Peterson sat down and fumed for the entire 75 minutes?! Wow! How Christlike of him.

This admission by DCP should once and for all remove any lingering doubt that he has a HUGE anger management problem. Just ask Gerald Bradford, who has been the object of Dan's rage, anger and hate for well over a year.

I'll say it again, Daniel C. Peterson is the Willy Loman of Mopologetics.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:51 pm 
God
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Very revealing.

What is the difference between this new "ranking" system and MADs rep points?

The whole MAD rep points is one of the most shocking and disgusting aspects of their board...and it surprises me DCP wants his own version. It's kind of like the diehards in priesthood meeting....bunch of pompous old men trying to outdo each other and look smarter than everybody else.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:56 pm 
God
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
You can see...obsessions playing out...


Oh my...the irony.

Quote:
in the planning and design of this thing: he clearly thinks that Mopologetics will at last emerge victorious if (a) people are forced to use their real names;


I can see why any number of critics, and especially certain apostate wolves playing TBM games among the flock, might be concerned here.

Quote:
(b) they have to openly announce their politics and religious standing (???);


Interesting. Full ideological and philosophical disclosure at the outset. Why might anyone be opposed to this?

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:00 pm 
God
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Droopy wrote:

Interesting. Full ideological and philosophical disclosure at the outset. Why might anyone be opposed to this?


Mormons love their labels. It's how they judge and determine who is on whose side. And who will get to heaven and hold church callings etc.

Example. Conservative = good. Liberal = bad.

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"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:45 pm 
God
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Quote:
This quote is absolute gold: "People tend to want high ratings."


Which illustrates the fact that absolute truth will not necessarily be there. Only someone's version of the truth. Absolute truth is only found where there is free speech.

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Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:47 pm 
God
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Quote:
Example. Conservative = good. Liberal = bad.


Which is a truism. Not a true Scotsman as there are no examples to show otherwise.

_________________
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:02 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Droopy wrote:
Interesting. Full ideological and philosophical disclosure at the outset. Why might anyone be opposed to this?


Why don't we add employment history and educational attainment while we're at it? The idea is problematic on all sorts of levels. For one thing, you can pretty much guarantee that there will be disagreements over the labels. E.g., you might go in calling yourself a "conservative" and/or a "classical liberal," but you may find that the Powers-that-be at the "World Table" think that "fundamentalist whack-job" is a clearer descriptor for you. So, what will happen if you fail to "disclose" this?

At the end of the day a given person's points and commentary are what should matter. This sort of "background check" that's being described is just a set up for endless argumentum ad hominem.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:49 pm 
Savior (resurrected)
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As part of one of his posts over on MAD (explaining what the new site will be) DCP states this:

Quote:
People come for debate, and that's what The World Table will permit them to have. Real discussions. Without the distraction of insults and with a minimum of irrelevancies. Debate isn't fostered by name-calling and the rantings of ignorant jackasses.


No name calling except by DCP, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:56 pm 
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
So angry that he couldn't even remember the show. Wow. Many of us have observed for years that the Mopologists are motivated at least in part by anger, only to be met with mocking laughter and blithe dismissals. You remember the "jokey" avatar signature, "Seething Cauldron of Hate"?

Well, let's just say that I'm glad to have the truth come out at last.


Excellent catch, Dr. Scratch.

So Daniel C. Peterson sat down and fumed for the entire 75 minutes?! Wow! How Christlike of him.

This admission by DCP should once and for all remove any lingering doubt that he has a HUGE anger management problem. Just ask Gerald Bradford, who has been the object of Dan's rage, anger and hate for well over a year.

I'll say it again, Daniel C. Peterson is the Willy Loman of Mopologetics.


I don't know about rage and hate, but experiencing anger for being ousted from a project you have basically given your life's blood to is certainly reason to be angry....particularly, considering the way this message was delivered(via email while he was out of the country on business generating revenue for the very project he was being cut from).


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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:18 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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I seem to recall a certain spanking-porn enthusiast permanently swearing off participation on apologetics-related threads.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:31 pm 
\m/ \m/
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One's identity and 'pedigree' are only necessary in an environment that is not a marketplace of ideas. If a post posits an idea that is of itself meritorious and withstands critical analysis and scrutiny, it matters not who posted it. The value lies in the idea itself.

If a post is made that is ridiculous on its face, such as mere name calling, it is not saved no matter how long and august the pedigree of the poster.

A reader quickly sorts them out.

Identity and pedigree is only required by those promoting weak ideas that cannot stand on their own.

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 Post subject: Re: The world table: a new apologetic website?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:49 pm 
Star A

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The growth rate of the LDS Church has decreased significantly since the internet became available. From about 5.3% in 1990 to about 2.5% today. There are so many different sites now that raise questions in the minds of those considering joining the LDS Church that, in my opinion, is a one main reason for the slower growth rate. I would think the LDS Church would want to try and address this issue, and it seems they are trying. I don't think it will work. There are far too many difficulties for LDS to address.

sr


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