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 Post subject: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:51 pm 
Anti-Mormon

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...not taking up John Dehlin on his offer to hash out all these issues in person and on camera. John Dehlin has a huge audience of people living on the edges of the Church and he was offering Smith a chance to actually address those people.

If DCP contacted me and said “Stak, you’ve said some pretty harsh things about me on your blog. Lets get on camera so you can defend and explain yourself” I’d jump on that chance the second it appeared. Heck, I’d kill for a chance to bust Dehlin’s chops for the experience and exposure alone!

The fact that Smith won’t engage with Dehlin, in a location of his own choosing and with a master copy of what is recorded, simply shows his inability to further articulate and defend his “review”.


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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:53 pm 
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It's a daunting task to defend the indefensible.

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:53 pm 
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Hey, if I was Frankensteining quotes to make someone look bad, I probably wouldn't want to talk about it on camera with them either. It's totally understandable.

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Last edited by Molok on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:08 pm 
Anti-Mormon

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cwald wrote:
It's a daunting task to defend the indefensible.


Molok wrote:
Hey, if I was Frankensteining quotes to make someone bad, I probably wouldn't want to talk about it on camera with them either. It's totally understandable.


Exactly. It is an issue of accountability and declining an invitation like that can only look bad. Dehlin was actually making a responsible and mature gesture in extending the invitation, he was willing to go to the mat to defend himself but also give his “reviewer” plenty of opportunities to take him to task and actually reach out to John’s fans.


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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Didn't Smith happily encourage Dehlin to write up a response?

Here you want to excoriate Smith for doing as he stated, not wanting to support Mormon Stories (afterall one apologist who went on an interview got called a pathetic person and a pathological deceiver or something), but somehow give Dehlin a free pass for not responding in writing.

Stak, well, you know how backwards this is. I'll just leave it alone. I know this is more about you whining about people than anything. But I had to say something.

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Well, Rollo Tomasi has done a write up now. Maybe they will put it in the next edition of the MI?


Hahahahahah.

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Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:22 pm 
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cwald wrote:
Well, Rollo Tomasi has done a write up now. Maybe they will put it in the next edition of the MI?


Hahahahahah.


oooh...that would be cold.

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Stem,

I know you like to pretend to be stupid here so you can troll people, but I’ve seen plenty of your posts at private forums to know when you are playing a game. The fact you simply refuse to be yourself here only speaks to your lack of honesty and personal integrity. Don’t try to turn this thread into something about you, I want none of your thread jacking.


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Here you want to excoriate Smith for doing as he stated


Smith is doing exactly what I want him to do, not do the right thing. I want his article to be published by BYU. I want Mormon institutions to look at his piece as sound scholarship and offer it up as an example of smart and intelligent men defending the Gospel with integrity.

What I’m doing here is a bit of a favor, I’m simply being transparent. Not treating Dehlin with the respect he deserves is a mistake. I want an example of some Apologist getting indignant over another Mormon informing people that masturbation is widely regarded by the mental health profession as a healthy expression of sexuality. I want the rest of the world to see a Canadian Medical Doctor getting his dander up over masturbation. That is a one way ticket to marginalization and cultural irrelevancy (Orson Scott Card anyone?).

Believe me Stem, I’m tickled pink that you are defending Smith. I want him to feel confident in what he’s done. Nurture that sense of unwarranted confidence, because that means he’s gonna march his dimwitted self into a hugely public forum like the Time LightBox fiasco (and thank YOU DCP!) and make the Church look pathetic.

My problem (and your benefiet) is that I have friends who are Mormon, who don’t want the Church to keep going down that path (and believe me, it has been doing it for decades) and don’t want their beloved BYU to be labeled unflattering names from people who matter.

So there is your answer. I doubt you have anything to add now, so go troll on another topic or actually write in the coherent manner that I know you can.


Last edited by MrStakhanovite on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:42 pm 
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MrStakhanovite wrote:
...not taking up John Dehlin on his offer to hash out all these issues in person and on camera. John Dehlin has a huge audience of people living on the edges of the Church and he was offering Smith a chance to actually address those people.

If DCP contacted me and said “Stak, you’ve said some pretty harsh things about me on your blog. Lets get on camera so you can defend and explain yourself” I’d jump on that chance the second it appeared. Heck, I’d kill for a chance to bust Dehlin’s chops for the experience and exposure alone!


Stak -- I, for one, would pay to see a debate between you and Dan.

Also, I agree that Greg may have missed a real opportunity to engage Dehlin directly. Especially given that John suggested that Greg define the terms. Greg would be in no danger of being put in a "gotcha" situation. Perhaps Greg will reconsider. I hope he does as I think the discussion would not only be very interesting but also, it may go a long way to heal the rift created by the "Dehlin Affair."

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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:54 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:40 pm
Posts: 5872
MrStakhanovite wrote:
Stem,

I know you like to pretend to be stupid here so you can troll people, but I’ve seen plenty of your posts at private forums to know when you are playing a game. The fact you simply refuse to be yourself here only speaks to your lack of honesty and personal integrity. Don’t try to turn this thread into something about you, I want none of your thread jacking.


:rolleyes: you simply don't get it.

Quote:
Smith is doing exactly what I want him to do, not do the right thing. I want his article to be published by BYU. I want Mormon institutions to look at his piece as sound scholarship and offer it up as an example of smart and intelligent men defending the Gospel with integrity.

What I’m doing here is a bit of a favor, I’m simply being transparent. Not treating Dehlin with the respect he deserves is a mistake. I want an example of some Apologist getting indignant over another Mormon informing people that masturbation is widely regarded by the mental health profession as a healthy expression of sexuality. I want the rest of the world to see a Canadian Medical Doctor getting his dander up over masturbation. That is a one way ticket to marginalization and cultural irrelevancy (Orson Scott Card anyone?).


hmmm...well you have a weird agenda then.

Quote:
Believe me Stem, I’m tickled pink that you are defending Smith.


What am I defending exactly?

Quote:
I want him to feel confident in what he’s done. Nurture that sense of unwarranted confidence, because that means he’s gonna march his dimwitted self into a hugely public forum like the Time LightBox fiasco (and thank YOU DCP!) and make the Church look pathetic.


Your comments are really quite revealing, but also quite comical. Really? You want the Church to look pathetic in the long run for what purpose? For some overthrow? For people of faith to feel marginalized and small? What exactly?

Quote:
My problem (and your benefiet) is that I have friends who are Mormon,


I think you ought to qualify Mormon and friend here. Oh just playing, settle down.

Quote:
who don’t want the Church to keep going down that path (and believe me, it has been doing it for decades) and don’t want their beloved BYU to be labeled unflattering names from people who matter.


Everyone matters, goofball. Heavenly Father loves us all. It's just a weird thing that you delight in seeing people who don't matter, in your view, falling, in some weird hope that your buds who do matter get what they want.

man, it'd just be nice if there wasn't such hostility as you exhibit rolling around out there. I mean, seriously, wouldn't it?

Quote:
So there is your answer. I doubt you have anything to add now, so go troll on another topic or actually write in the coherent manner that I know you can.


Well you didn't really address what I said. So, I hope you reconsider your anger and come back and discuss. As it is, Smith rejected the chance to go on Mormonstories in hopes the conversation continues in print. Dehlin rejected the in print conversation because he writes too slow. you seem to prefer some vocal televised battle over some writings and as such you hope that doing something liek that would embarrass Mormonism and BYU more and more so some of your buds can feel vindicated?

Man, I tell ya what. It'd be sweet if there was just some nice general well-wishes going around.

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Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


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 Post subject: Re: What Greg Smith’s Real Mistake Was...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:27 pm 
God
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cwald wrote:
It's a daunting task to defend the indefensible.


This.

In Early March 2006, Daniel C. Peterson was challenged to a debate concerning Mormonism with Bob McCue and Steve Benson. Daniel tucked his tail and ran. Daniel had previously stated that no Ex-Mormon was willing to challenge him. The reason Daniel did not want to debate? Bob was "dismissed as insufficiently credentialed; unprincipled in various ways and hence likely to waste his time in debate; unworthy of his special attention in part because I have shown unscholarly tendencies in Internet postings" ( See http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_bobm ... _401795810 )

Smith - or any of them - would never agree to an open debate.

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