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 Post subject: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:16 am 
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Our friend, Prof. P., has provided us a tidbit of interesting insight into the pulling of the Dehlin hit piece from the Mormon Studies Review:

Prof. P. wrote:
I can’t help but wonder, now, whether the anonymous General Authority who apparently asked President Samuelson to tell Jerry Bradford to tell me not to publish the paper had been told that we were going to accuse John Dehlin of murder or manslaughter or something of that sort. I have no reason to believe that any General Authority has read the paper, or that President Samuelson has, and I know (because I asked him) that, at least as of three weeks ago when I last met with him, Jerry Bradford had not. I’ll probably never know. But that would help to account for a part of this rather mysterious drama.


Evidently, Prof. P. is upset because some people are claiming that Louis Midgley's accusation against John Dehlin (namely, that the latter was somehow involved in or connected to the death of one or more missionaries in his mission) at the UVU Mormon Studies gathering was included in Greg Smith's hit piece. Of course, we don't know whether it was or not, but we do know that Louis Midgley got in Dehlin's face and shouted at him this crazy accusation that could have only been generated through the kind of opposition research that would have made Lee Atwater salivate back in the day.

But Prof. P. does not mention the Midgley incident at all. Big Surprise.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:21 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
But Prof. P. does not mention the Midgley incident at all. Big Surprise.


Bad form to mention the bad behavior of one's friends.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:28 am 
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harmony wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:
But Prof. P. does not mention the Midgley incident at all. Big Surprise.


Bad form to mention the bad behavior of one's friends.


Yes, but it is OK to depict a situation in which inexplicably all of these people spontaneously create a fanciful accusation about a murder accusation in Greg Smith's piece in order to suggest that all criticism of his and Greg Smith's activities is bizarre and unconnected with any reality.

Right?

I understand that Prof. P. feels like he is under no obligation to share the information that provides some kind of context, and thus renders intelligible, the issue he is discussing. After all, I have seen him in action for years now. He is not in the habit of treating those who disagree with him fairly.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:32 am 
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Unless it's been removed, one of the comments under this entry mentions the Midgley incident.

I think it was dishonest to pretend he has no idea how this rumor could have possibly started.

But then again, I don't believe a word he says about anything anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:38 am 
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beastie wrote:
Unless it's been removed, one of the comments under this entry mentions the Midgley incident.

I think it was dishonest to pretend he has no idea how this rumor could have possibly started.

But then again, I don't believe a word he says about anything anymore.


It's still there, beastie. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I guess Prof. P. deserves some credit for not deleting it.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:41 am 
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Bad form for DCP to crack on a general authority like that.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:48 am 
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Quote:

Evidently, Prof. P. is upset because some people are claiming that Louis Midgley's accusation against John Dehlin (namely, that the latter was somehow involved in or connected to the death of one or more missionaries in his mission) at the UVU Mormon Studies gathering was included in Greg Smith's hit piece. Of course, we don't know whether it was or not, but we do know that Louis Midgley got in Dehlin's face and shouted at him this crazy accusation that could have only been generated through the kind of opposition research that would have made Lee Atwater salivate back in the day.

But Prof. P. does not mention the Midgley incident at all. Big Surprise.


What we "know" is the story John Dehlin has told, including the UVU story, which could be true, could be a purely subjective imposition on what actually happened from Dehlin's own highly self interested mind, or an utter fabrication.

Time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:50 am 
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Droopy wrote:
What we "know" is the story John Dehlin has told, including the UVU story, which could be true, could be a purely subjective imposition on what actually happened from Dehlin's own highly self interested mind, or an utter fabrication.

Time will tell.


Kinda like what we know about the story Joseph Smith told.

Man, ya just can't trust anybody these days.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:13 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Our friend, Prof. P., has provided us a tidbit of interesting insight into the pulling of the Dehlin hit piece from the Mormon Studies Review:

Prof. P. wrote:
I can’t help but wonder, now, whether the anonymous General Authority who apparently asked President Samuelson to tell Jerry Bradford to tell me not to publish the paper had been told that we were going to accuse John Dehlin of murder or manslaughter or something of that sort. I have no reason to believe that any General Authority has read the paper, or that President Samuelson has, and I know (because I asked him) that, at least as of three weeks ago when I last met with him, Jerry Bradford had not. I’ll probably never know. But that would help to account for a part of this rather mysterious drama.


Evidently, Prof. P. is upset because some people are claiming that Louis Midgley's accusation against John Dehlin (namely, that the latter was somehow involved in or connected to the death of one or more missionaries in his mission) at the UVU Mormon Studies gathering was included in Greg Smith's hit piece. Of course, we don't know whether it was or not, but we do know that Louis Midgley got in Dehlin's face and shouted at him this crazy accusation that could have only been generated through the kind of opposition research that would have made Lee Atwater salivate back in the day.

But Prof. P. does not mention the Midgley incident at all. Big Surprise.


I took this to be an allusion to Midgley's blow-up:

DCP wrote:
I know something about the matter of the missionary death. I think, in the various tellings of our villainy, that what one person (not the author of the paper) allegedly said about it has become seriously distorted, and made to look far worse and more incendiary than it ever was.


Here's my question: Why are the people at Patheos allowing him to do this stuff? They need to kick him off and let him carry on with this sort of thing without their endorsement. He's going to wind up dragging them down, too.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:27 am 
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Droopy wrote:
What we "know" is the story John Dehlin has told, including the UVU story, which could be true, could be a purely subjective imposition on what actually happened from Dehlin's own highly self interested mind, or an utter fabrication.

Time will tell.


It was recorded on video, so it's not just John's "story," much less a fabrication. Maybe that's the last resort of the weak-minded: accuse someone of utter fabrication. You impress me less and less every day, Loran. In the time I've been here, I've learned from you and mr. space that to be a good Mormon is to be a racist, reactionary right-winger. That certainly sounds attractive.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:31 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I have no reason to believe that any General Authority has read the paper.

The General Authority, I'm told, has confirmed to some associates that he read portions of the paper.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:33 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Of course, we don't know whether it was or not, but we do know that Louis Midgley got in Dehlin's face and shouted at him this crazy accusation that could have only been generated through the kind of opposition research that would have made Lee Atwater salivate back in the day.

+1

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Here's my question: Why are the people at Patheos allowing him to do this stuff? They need to kick him off and let him carry on with this sort of thing without their endorsement. He's going to wind up dragging them down, too.


Isn't Patheos supposed to be about discussions of faith? This is about Dan's personal grudges and political goings-on at the Maxwell Institute, not about faith.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:00 am 
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Quote:
It was recorded on video, so it's not just John's "story," much less a fabrication.


Uh huh, and you've seen that video, correct, just as you've read Greg Smiths essay, correct?

Could you link me to the video, please? Is it up at the Mormonstories site?

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:08 am 
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Droopy wrote:
Quote:
It was recorded on video, so it's not just John's "story," much less a fabrication.


Uh huh, and you've seen that video, correct, just as you've read Greg Smiths essay, correct?

Could you link me to the video, please? Is it up at the Mormonstories site?


Have you seen the golden plates?

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:14 am 
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Droopy wrote:
Uh huh, and you've seen that video, correct, just as you've read Greg Smiths essay, correct?

Could you link me to the video, please? Is it up at the Mormonstories site?


I'm not giving away my sources. ____.

Why are you bringing up Greg Smith's essay? I haven't read it, nor have I claimed to.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:26 am 
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Could someone give me some insight into how anyone, in their right mind, could try and place any blame on Dehlin for the death of these missionaries? From the story it appears they were on the boat going to obtain a birth certificate for a wedding. How could Dehlin possibly be to blame?
These people are insane.

Quote:
The four had been returning to the town of Panajachel from the village of San Pedro la Laguna, 40 miles northwest of Guatemala City, after picking up birth certificates for a wedding, LeFevre said.


http://articles.latimes.com/1990-01-09/local/me-276_1_laguna-hills

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:28 am 
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Willy Law wrote:
Could someone give me some insight into how anyone, in their right mind, could try and place any blame on Dehlin for the death of these missionaries? From the story it appears they were on the boat going to obtain a birth certificate for a wedding. How could Dehlin possibly be to blame?
These people are insane.


Anything to discredit their enemies, no matter how fallacious.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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Willy Law wrote:
Could someone give me some insight into how anyone, in their right mind, could try and place any blame on Dehlin for the death of these missionaries? From the story it appears they were on the boat going to obtain a birth certificate for a wedding. How could Dehlin possibly be to blame?
These people are insane.

Quote:
The four had been returning to the town of Panajachel from the village of San Pedro la Laguna, 40 miles northwest of Guatemala City, after picking up birth certificates for a wedding, LeFevre said.


http://articles.latimes.com/1990-01-09/local/me-276_1_laguna-hills


Exactly.

It is rumoured that Midgely also demanded to know Dehlins whereabouts in November 1963.

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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:35 am 
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Willy Law wrote:
Could someone give me some insight into how anyone, in their right mind, could try and place any blame on Dehlin for the death of these missionaries? From the story it appears they were on the boat going to obtain a birth certificate for a wedding. How could Dehlin possibly be to blame?
These people are insane.


Sheesh, at least the Paul Pry stuff with Grant Palmer had some element of truth to it. This reminds more of when they were trying to accuse Michael Quinn of cruising gay bars in Utah while teaching at BYU.


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 Post subject: Re: More Pieces of the Dehlin Debacle Puzzle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:39 am 
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Cicero wrote:
Willy Law wrote:
Could someone give me some insight into how anyone, in their right mind, could try and place any blame on Dehlin for the death of these missionaries? From the story it appears they were on the boat going to obtain a birth certificate for a wedding. How could Dehlin possibly be to blame?
These people are insane.


Sheesh, at least the Paul Pry stuff with Grant Palmer had some element of truth to it. This reminds more of when they were trying to accuse Michael Quinn of cruising gay bars in Utah while teaching at BYU.


Or Peterson surfing for boners when he's meant to be on an all expenses paid junket to the middle earth....errr....east....

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