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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:59 pm 
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sock puppet wrote:
Hi, Nightlion,

I had hoped to be coming to Salt Lake City this week, but that will not be happening. Soon, friend, soon.


I pineth away the days.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
Seek the interest of your neighbor before you own best interest??????????????????????


The best interest of Joseph's neighbor was not Joseph's idea of Zion. Joseph's idea of Zion only included his own best interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
Hi, Nightlion,

I had hoped to be coming to Salt Lake City this week, but that will not be happening. Soon, friend, soon.


I pineth away the days.

ha, ha, ha.


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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
Paul, you could not get between me and Joseph Smith with a corn dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beatle.

I will have everyone look at the broader picture and consider more than they yet have about The Book of Abraham.


You are a one-man-band sounding off to yourself as you rant and rave over your crazy religious ideas. You do realize that you're not entirely sane, do you? You are living in some kind of crazy dream. Wake up. You're deluded.

Perhaps there is room in the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 to write about you. Who knows. A little creativity and anything is possible. We live in a quantum universe where reality is what you believe. So, have it, Nightlion. Good luck getting followers.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:15 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
Paul, you could not get between me and Joseph Smith with a corn dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beatle.

I will have everyone look at the broader picture and consider more than they yet have about The Book of Abraham.


You are a one-man-band sounding off to yourself as you rant and rave over your crazy religious ideas. You do realize that you're not entirely sane, do you? You are living in some kind of crazy dream. Wake up. You're deluded.

Perhaps there is room in the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 to write about you. Who knows. A little creativity and anything is possible. We live in a quantum universe where reality is what you believe. So, have it, Nightlion. Good luck getting followers.

Paul O


You reminded me of what I have left undone. lol
Won't that be somethin'?

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
thews wrote:
You're a prime example of how one deals with cognitive dissonance. What you fail to acknowledge in your trip through wonderland, is that Joseph Smith was not receiving revelation from God, but rather making it all up on the fly. While you concoct theories based on "no revelation to guide him he was letting his imagination go wild" you then come across as if you're making sense. Joseph Smith was a charlatan who made everything up... at what point do you acknowledge this is even a possibility?


At absolutely no point at all shall I imagine Joseph Smith made everything up. There is a secret thread that passes through all scripture. It is the truth of God, meaning what God wants people to get while they live and can only get from him. This is the true gospel.

If you lack the critical thinking skills to even think about the data, then you lose objectivity and are prone to brainwash. I suggest you take Descartes' meditation for a ride.

Nightlion wrote:
Just explain how it was that Joseph Smith got this exactly right such that even today's Mormons are clueless as are all Gentiles, because saying it and repeating it is no getting it at all. Joseph Smith did and preached it his entire career. And as I just pointed out; the early saints were not getting it.

This thread is about the Book of Abraham, which we know was "translated" 100% incorrectly. What you deem is "exactly right" should be based on evidence. If Joseph Smith was telling the truth, then the historicity of Mormonism shouldn't hinge on some supposed Nephite coin that has yet to be found. I contend Joseph got nothing "rigth" and everything wrong, while you contend he got everything right. If you are correct, then please provide one single piece of tangible evidence to prove the historicity of Mormonism as true... just one.

Nightlion wrote:
Thews, you do not even know what the gospel is, or why God wants us to get it exactly right. The McGospel salvation flippers want you to pay to play and that's the gospel. The LDS want you to pay for what they tell is just a little bit more than the gospel. Neither are and each are as cluess as was everyone living at the time of Joseph Smith when he did get it right and brought forth abundant scriptures that all spoke of it precisely right.

I am not a crazy daffy self-professed "prophet of God" am I? You don't know Jack about what God wants, but think you're the only one who does. Heaven... party of one. Nightlion... your table is waiting for you.

Nightlion wrote:
It comes off to me as really dumb to keep saying Joseph Smith made everything up.

It comes off to me as dumb to believe in occult magic seer stones used to see evil dead treasure guardians.

Nightlion wrote:
Sounds more like an agenda than anything about truth.

I agree. Your agenda knows no truth, but rather blind ignorance of what doesn't make sense. Regarding the Book of Abraham, see Paul O's response, as you have no answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:31 pm 
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thews wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
Just explain how it was that Joseph Smith got this exactly right such that even today's Mormons are clueless as are all Gentiles, because saying it and repeating it is no getting it at all. Joseph Smith did and preached it his entire career. And as I just pointed out; the early saints were not getting it.

This thread is about the Book of Abraham, which we know was "translated" 100% incorrectly. What you deem is "exactly right" should be based on evidence. If Joseph Smith was telling the truth, then the historicity of Mormonism shouldn't hinge on some supposed Nephite coin that has yet to be found. I contend Joseph got nothing "rigth" and everything wrong, while you contend he got everything right. If you are correct, then please provide one single piece of tangible evidence to prove the historicity of Mormonism as true... just one.


Now you see, I did just that and it went right over your head. What Joseph Smith got precisely right in his generation is what Christians have fumbled and stumbled on for 1800 years. Not the Book of Abraham, that is not this specific point that I am making.

Christ took great pains (not pun intended) to assist the Jews who believed on him to get his gospel precisely right so that the promise of the Father would be realized in the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost....................that is the SAME gospel Old Testament saints got exactly right when they circumcised the foreskins of their heart (made an acceptable sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit) and were given a new heart from God that was filled with the love of God, and the power to prophesy and other great miracles.

Almost every Protestant protester wanted to discover the WAY to getting the gospel exactly right. NONE of them succeeded until Joseph Smith showed them how. Now this is the most difficult thing in the world for Gentiles who love the world and seek the honors of men. So even though Joseph Smith taught it basically nobody got it. A few did and most of those could not hold onto it. Some were killed right away. Only the son of perdition continued to a ripe old age.

Before Joseph Smith himself fully understood this secret knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon was filled with it. Imagine that! How could he make up a "con" with absolute perfect understanding of a lost gospel that is consistent down through the ages although only those who partake of it can SEE THE KINGDOM as Jesus testified? You must be born again to see the kingdom.

You have to stop belittling Joseph Smith before we can topic rightly The Book of Abraham.

In two thousand years there has not been a greater than Joseph Smith for restoring the correct knowledge of God and how to come unto Christ correctly so that you are received of him and made his son or his daughter.

Sure, Burger Chapel will fast food service your salvation through the drive through. IF THAT's WHAT YOU WANT.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:34 am 
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Nightlion wrote:
You have to stop belittling Joseph Smith before we can topic rightly The Book of Abraham.


You forget, I used to be a Book of Abraham apologist and spent years building a website to that very purpose. I thought Joseph Smith hung the moon. He was the neatest thing next to Jesus. But now I know better. The Book of Abraham is a fraud. And so also is Joseph Smith.

Answer the question with a simply YES or NO, Nightlion. Only one answer will suffice.

Are the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 a fraud?

YES [ ]
NO [ ]

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
You have to stop belittling Joseph Smith before we can topic rightly The Book of Abraham.


You forget, I used to be a Book of Abraham apologist and spent years building a website to that very purpose. I thought Joseph Smith hung the moon. He was the neatest thing next to Jesus. But now I know better. The Book of Abraham is a fraud. And so also is Joseph Smith.

Answer the question with a simply YES or NO, Nightlion. Only one answer will suffice.

Are the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 a fraud?

YES [ ]
NO [ ]

Paul O


Was it right for God to command Abraham to offer his son, Isaac, especially realizing that Abraham was once put on the alter?

NO the answer is Yes. See?
This is the nature of a test and Joseph was pissed at the Gentiles for lacking the faith to bring forth and establish Zion. As was the Lord and so he remains with his fury come up in his face, until the consumption decreed has made a full end of all nations. For as He lives, abomination shall not reign. The world (the Gentiles [the Mormons]) had Zion and the lying wonders of Satan to choose between and they chose poorly.

Who can get over this and through the straight gate.....seeing Joseph has lied. Who? Not the fearful and unbelieving. Only those capable of Zion. Where ever the heck they are??????

This is a hard thing. Who can hear it? Will you also go away?



The earth will rest from the wickedness that has spread out upon her face.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
The earth will rest from the wickedness that has spread out upon her face.


Daniel Peterson will rest from wickedness when you stop persecuting him, Scratch.


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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Nightlion, you are insane. So also is the story of Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac. Your Zion is never going to appear in any glory. Your jezzus is not coming. He is dead.

Live out the rest of your life -- you'll die without seeing jezzus. It's all a hoax. The joke is on you.

Even so, come NOT lord jezzus!!

:lol:

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Thews, what you insist is critical thinking is simply doubt. Doubt is for when you do not know.
Which is both wise and extremely helpful in figuring things from ignorance to knowing.
After you know doubt is vanquished forever.

You can refresh your challenge for me to use critical thinking over and over again. It is a moot point with me. I have advanced far beyond anything you can conceive of for truth. Joseph Smith brought a truck load of truth into the world by his faith and works. I have taken that and ran with it now forty years. Them forty years were not barren nor unfruitful. I was regularly added upon with greater truth than what Joseph Smith restored. It is all one great whole. It rolls like eternity.

It would be like you asking Stephen Hawkins to doubt his understanding of math. Does that help you understand how untouchable I am to your doubts and slanders?

It pains me that you are stuck on hating your ciphers there kid. But glorious understanding awaits you finally learning something useful. Comprende?

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Let's see then if I can sum up my present opinion of The Book of Abraham:

1. Joseph had The Book of Abraham years before the papyrus.
2. When Joseph got the papyrus he attempting to discover the Adamic Language in the Egyptian and gave up.
3. By 1842 Joseph was commissioned* of God to prepare the Strong Delusion to punish the Gentiles for failing to love the gospel of Zion and for refusing to receive it and trampling it under foot. This was needful so that the Restoration was not utterly lost when Joseph was gone. This is evident by him announcing his soon to be departure to the Relief Society April 28,1842. The same day Times and Seasons published the Book of Abraham.

Components of the Strong Delusion mentioned in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.**
a. The doctrine of man becoming a "g"od was left under develop purposefully.
b. The sealing power allowed 'Kingdom Building" by adoptions to reinforce the delusion of a man becoming a God to his dominion which he could electioneer to enhance.
c. Polygamy was part of the Strong Delusion program to move the Church to the fringe of society to keep it at odds with the world so that Mormonism was not absorbed back into the Protestant mainstream as per The Reorganized LDS.
d. The "TEST" for the Church in our day was prepared in the bogus facsimiles of The Book of Abraham being finally found out. These were hid until our day when faith unto salvation suddenly springs forth and the Gentiles sin against the gospel and Joseph's name begins to be had for ill among the Mormons who retrench into even more abominations of their own righteousness and the idol of their own god which is after the likeness of the world.
4. The Strong Delusion has corrupted the gospel and is now fully lost to the Gentiles as the Lord promised that The Father would take it from the Gentiles and give it to the remnants of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. This is our present point in time. (see 3 Nephi 16)
5. Those who have light in themselves having received the gospel of power and not of pretense will be able to keep their faith. The hypocrites never had faith to begin with and are only interested in moving forward the cause of the Church in defiance and repudiation of Zion and the commandments of Jesus Christ and will arrogantly do what they think best.
6. The purpose of God was to preserve enough of the essence of the Restoration that a man of faith could come along and get it right with only the power of the Spirit and not by way of extra-ordinary means such as theophany, angelic visitations, Book of Mormon, Christ forcing revelations upon Joseph and the like. This is needful so that the kingdom in its final phase might stand forever. For all things must be done by the power of the Spirit alone to be eternal; as the promise for that the stone cut out of the mountain without hands is that it shall establish a kingdom that will stand forever. It is the right way to do things with God. And so he will now watch to see if he will be obeyed and a kingdom grows to fill the earth.

To sum up more perfectly let me just say that the flaws of The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham were a purposeful act intended to prove the Church in its death throws to be worthy of losing the Gospel because they refused to repent and get the power to withstand the test. Wresting the gospel away from the Gentiles allows for it to begin pure and undefiled and capable of standing forever. Basically the Lord used the Gentiles in his own wisdom to finesse his kingdom in a manner in which it would take hold and bind Satan and fulfill the day of righteousness when the earth shall rest for a season. Which kingdom is just beginning to rise up.

Zion keeps Joseph Smith and shall continue to win. The LDS repudiate Joseph Smith/the gospel/Zion/the commandments of Jesus Christ and have already lost, and they could not care less with the wealth and renown and arrogance they encourage and nurture as they stiffen their necks.

*commissioned because the prophecy of Paul declares that God would send them strong delusion that they believe a lie. God needed a prophet to send this delusion into the world. That prophet was Joseph Smith who set up the Gentiles to believe lies. Thus shall his name be had for good and for evil.The nature of Joseph was turned by this commission as was manifested by his despondency knowing Zion was a failure and not possible in his time.

**The other part of 2 Thessalonians about the man of sin the son of perdition is also fulfilled in the LDS Church by none other than Lorenzo Snow. I can explain that again if anyone is interested.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
Let's see then if I can sum up my present opinion of The Book of Abraham:

1. Joseph had The Book of Abraham years before the papyrus..


OMG. You don't know what you're talking about and are ignorant on the facts, dates, and evidences of the coming forth of the Abrahamic revelation.

It's not even worth arguing with you. Not only are you a false prophet but you don't know the facts. Go home, get in bed, and turn out the lights, Nightlion. Again, you've been exposed for what you are. You are nothing but a want-to-be prophet and no one will ever follow you.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
Let's see then if I can sum up my present opinion of The Book of Abraham:

1. Joseph had The Book of Abraham years before the papyrus..


OMG. You don't know what you're talking about and are ignorant on the facts, dates, and evidences of the coming forth of the Abrahamic revelation.

It's not even worth arguing with you. Not only are you a false prophet but you don't know the facts. Go home, get in bed, and turn out the lights, Nightlion. Again, you've been exposed for what you are. You are nothing but a want-to-be prophet and no one will ever follow you.

Paul O


Perhaps you just did not read my rationale about this. Joseph begins using Adamic words in The Doctrine and Covenants two or three years before the papyrus makes it to Kirtland.
In the text of the Book of Abraham, Abraham says that he has the book of remembrance which is written in the language of Adam. I say that is strong evidence.

So,Paul-I-built-a-website-aplogizing-the-Book-of-Abraham, what do you have that I need to be aware of?

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
So,Paul-I-built-a-website-aplogizing-the-Book-of-Abraham, what do you have that I need to be aware of?


Go do some research. You're too green between the ears for me to waste my time with.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
So,Paul-I-built-a-website-aplogizing-the-Book-of-Abraham, what do you have that I need to be aware of?


Go do some research. You're too green between the ears for me to waste my time with.

Paul O


That is the thanks I get for being civil with you? You must be pissing your pants over this incredibly adroit answer to the entire enigma of Joseph Smith. Piss on, piss on.

He set up the Church to endure long enough to epic fail and allow the real Zion to shine.
What a prophet! Damn Gentiles anyway. They denied Christ to begin with (the great apostasy) and denied him twice.((the great latter-day apostasy))

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
That is the thanks I get for being civil with you? You must be pissing your pants over this incredibly adroit answer to the entire enigma of Joseph Smith. Piss on, piss on.

He set up the Church to endure long enough to epic fail and allow the real Zion to shine.
What a prophet! Damn Gentiles anyway. They denied Christ to begin with (the great apostasy) and denied him twice.((the great latter-day apostasy))


You must be drunk. The Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and your babblings go hand in hand.

:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:09 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
That is the thanks I get for being civil with you? You must be pissing your pants over this incredibly adroit answer to the entire enigma of Joseph Smith. Piss on, piss on.

He set up the Church to endure long enough to epic fail and allow the real Zion to shine.
What a prophet! Damn Gentiles anyway. They denied Christ to begin with (the great apostasy) and denied him twice.((the great latter-day apostasy))


You must be drunk. The Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and your babblings go hand in hand.

:rolleyes:

Paul O


If I were drunk I would probably be posting pictures of me without a shirt.

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:13 am 
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Nightlion wrote:
If I were drunk I would probably be posting pictures of me without a shirt.


You're drunk -- and ugly too. I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Nightlion's Official Book of Abraham TA DA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:36 am 
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Nightlion wrote:
Thews, what you insist is critical thinking is simply doubt. Doubt is for when you do not know.
Which is both wise and extremely helpful in figuring things from ignorance to knowing.
After you know doubt is vanquished forever.

What you claim to "know" without doubt is the basis for why you simply cannot think critically. In order to be objective, you must acknowledge the facts. The truth is you don't "know" Joseph Smith's truth claims are in fact true, but you believe it... which is why you're ignorant.

Nightlion wrote:
You can refresh your challenge for me to use critical thinking over and over again. It is a moot point with me. I have advanced far beyond anything you can conceive of for truth. Joseph Smith brought a truck load of truth into the world by his faith and works. I have taken that and ran with it now forty years. Them forty years were not barren nor unfruitful. I was regularly added upon with greater truth than what Joseph Smith restored. It is all one great whole. It rolls like eternity.

If you actually had answers to the question asked, you'd state them, but you don't, so you resort to the same tired "answers" (responses) that involve a parallel analogy in a failed attempt to negate the question. here's a good example:

The question asked...
Shulem wrote:
Answer the question with a simply YES or NO, Nightlion. Only one answer will suffice.

Are the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 a fraud?

YES [ ]
NO [ ]

Paul O


Your "answer"...
Nightlion wrote:
Was it right for God to command Abraham to offer his son, Isaac, especially realizing that Abraham was once put on the alter?

NO the answer is Yes. See?
This is the nature of a test and Joseph was pissed at the Gentiles for lacking the faith to bring forth and establish Zion. As was the Lord and so he remains with his fury come up in his face, until the consumption decreed has made a full end of all nations. For as He lives, abomination shall not reign. The world (the Gentiles [the Mormons]) had Zion and the lying wonders of Satan to choose between and they chose poorly.

Who can get over this and through the straight gate.....seeing Joseph has lied. Who? Not the fearful and unbelieving. Only those capable of Zion. Where ever the heck they are??????

This is a hard thing. Who can hear it? Will you also go away?

The answer to the question asked was nothing more than gibberish. The question Paul asked you was whether or not the Egyptian language as translated by Joseph Smith was correct.

Nightlion wrote:
It would be like you asking Stephen Hawkins to doubt his understanding of math. Does that help you understand how untouchable I am to your doubts and slanders?

And here we have yet another parallel analogy that is incorrect. Math is based on facts, and if the same answer can be concluded every time by using the same formula, it's a fact the formula is correct and has nothing to do with belief. A correct analogy would be like you asking a three year-old child whether or not they doubted their belief in Santa Claus. They don't doubt their belief and they "know" Santa Claus exists. They want to believe in Santa Claus... just like you want to believe in Joseph Smith.


Nightlion wrote:
It pains me that you are stuck on hating your ciphers there kid. But glorious understanding awaits you finally learning something useful. Comprende?

It pains me to have a conversation with you, as you simply cannot just address the questions asked. There is nothing true about Joseph Smith's truth claims using facts, so you simply cannot "know" you're correct in your beliefs, because you can't even acknowledge it's only what you believe. Care to answer Paul's question by addressing it ?

_________________
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths


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