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 Post subject: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am 
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1. The Church Version
Quote:
Ezra Booth joined the Church in 1831 after seeing the Prophet heal Elsa Johnson’s arm (see lesson 19). Several months later he was called on a mission to Missouri. He was angry because he had to walk the entire journey and because missionary life was not what he had expected. He was disappointed because he did not see any more miracles like the healing of Elsa Johnson. He began to think and say bad things about the leaders of the Church. Because of his improper behavior during his mission, Ezra Booth was excommunicated when he returned to Ohio. This meant that he was no longer a member of the Church. Instead of repenting, Booth began writing letters to a local newspaper, telling lies about Joseph Smith and the Church. These letters influenced many people in Ohio to become suspicious of Church members and to persecute them.

One winter night a group of men who believed Ezra Booth’s letters got drunk and attacked the homes of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in Hiram, Ohio. Joseph had been up late caring for his adopted son, who had the measles, and had just fallen asleep when the angry mob broke into the house. The men dragged Joseph outside, swearing and threatening to kill him. They choked him, tore off his clothes, and tried to push a paddle of hot tar and a bottle of acid into his mouth. The bottle of acid broke, chipping one of Joseph’s teeth and causing him to speak with a whistle for the rest of his life. The men in the mob also dragged Sidney Rigdon from his home. When Joseph saw Sidney lying on the ground, he thought Sidney was dead. The mob decided not to kill Joseph, but they scratched him severely, spread hot tar all over his body, and covered him with feathers.

When Joseph finally got home, Emma saw him and fainted, because she thought the tar covering Joseph was blood. Joseph’s friends helped him clean off the tar, a long and painful process. Sidney Rigdon had been knocked unconscious from the severe cuts and bruises to his head, and he was delirious for several days. Following this terrible experience, the baby that Joseph had been caring for that night caught a severe cold and died.

The next day was Sunday, and Joseph went at the usual time to worship with the Saints. The group of people he preached to included some members of the mob who had covered him with tar and feathers the night before. Even with his skin scraped and sore, Joseph preached as usual and never mentioned the violence of the night before. (Primary 5. No footnotes or references)


Or

2. The Anti-Mormon Version
Quote:
[W]hile Joseph was yet at my father’s, a mob of forty or fifty came to his house, a few entered his room in the middle of the night, and Carnot Mason dragged Joseph out of bed by the hair of his head; he was then seized by as many as could get hold of him, and taken about forty rods from the house, stretched on a board, and tantalized in the most insulting and brutal manner; they tore off the few night clothes that he had on, for the purpose of emasculating him, and had Dr. Dennison there to perform the operation [castration]; but when the Dr. saw the Prophet stripped and stretched on the plank, his heart failed him, and he refused to operate. The mob … in attempting to force open his jaws, they broke one of his front teeth to pour a vial of some obnoxious drug [aqua-fortis, a poison] into his mouth. The mob [then] became divided [because they] did not succeed, … but [instead had to settle for] poured tar over him, and then stuck feathers in it and left him … [then] part of the mob went to the house that Sidney Rigdon occupied, and dragged him out, and besmeared him with tar and feathers.

Persons identified as being part of this attack besides Mason and Dr. Dennison, included Simonds Ryder, Warren Waste, Jacob Scott, a man named Fullar, and Eli Johnson. Many of these men had recently apostatized from the church.6 The mob action of March 24th, appears to have occurred for two reasons. Ryder said the attack occurred because “a plot was laid to take their property from them and place it under the control of Smith.”7 Eli Johnson was more specific. He was troubled because Smith and Rigdon were urging his brother John Johnson to “let them have his property,”8 and was “furious because he suspected Joseph of being intimate with his sister [actually she was his sixteen year old niece9], Nancy Mirinda Johnson, and he was screaming for Joseph’s castration.”10 Unsolicited sexual behaviors may have been the more urgent reason. The attack took place “in the middle of the night,” suggesting a crime that would arouse immediate action. Procuring the services of Dr. Dennison prior to the attack also suggests a crime of passion may have been committed. (quoted from MormonThink.com, has footnotes and references)


Please supply references to support your opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:50 am 
I had not realized until I read both accounts side by side how different they both were. Before, I had assumed that the main difference was in the reason for the attack, itself. However, the second account has several other stark differences. It does not mention Emma, nor does it mention the child who later died.

I was also read another account where Joseph had asked permission to marry Nancy, and that the brother/uncle identified as screaming for Josephs castration, had actually given his blessing on the marriage. I will have to see if I can find that other account.

This is really confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:52 am 
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Whoa, Joseph spoke with a whistle? Next time I read the King Follett sermon, I'm going to have the voice of the gopher from Winnie the Pooh in my head.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:29 am 
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There's a good discussion of this event here:

http://saintswithouthalos.com/n/1832_tar.phtml

The reports are conflicting, obviously, but some of the details are wrong. For example, Eli and Edward Johnson are not John Johnson Sr's sons.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:32 am 
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Drifting wrote:
1. The Church Version
Quote:
Ezra Booth joined the Church in 1831 after seeing the Prophet heal Elsa Johnson’s arm (see lesson 19). Several months later he was called on a mission to Missouri. He was angry because he had to walk the entire journey and because missionary life was not what he had expected. He was disappointed because he did not see any more miracles like the healing of Elsa Johnson. He began to think and say bad things about the leaders of the Church. Because of his improper behavior during his mission, Ezra Booth was excommunicated when he returned to Ohio. This meant that he was no longer a member of the Church. Instead of repenting, Booth began writing letters to a local newspaper, telling lies about Joseph Smith and the Church. These letters influenced many people in Ohio to become suspicious of Church members and to persecute them.



Are the contents of these letters known? I'd like to know what lies were told.

H.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:47 am 
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LDSToronto wrote:
Quote:
Ezra Booth joined the Church in 1831 after seeing the Prophet heal Elsa Johnson’s arm (see lesson 19). Several months later he was called on a mission to Missouri. He was angry because he had to walk the entire journey and because missionary life was not what he had expected. He was disappointed because he did not see any more miracles like the healing of Elsa Johnson. He began to think and say bad things about the leaders of the Church. Because of his improper behavior during his mission, Ezra Booth was excommunicated when he returned to Ohio. This meant that he was no longer a member of the Church. Instead of repenting, Booth began writing letters to a local newspaper, telling lies about Joseph Smith and the Church. These letters influenced many people in Ohio to become suspicious of Church members and to persecute them.


Are the contents of these letters known? I'd like to know what lies were told.

H.


I am not aware of any documentary evidence of these letters nor their contents. They may have existed but someone needs to post a reference that supports their existence (other than a Primary manual).

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:52 am 
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Makes me wonder what the "persecute" them really entailed (knowing how the church loves to claim they were persecuted, when actually... they weren't, and aren't)

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:23 am 
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The castration attempt is acknowledged by pro-LDS scholar Susan Easton, although she does not say why the Johnson brothers attempted to castrate Joseph.

http://newsroom.byuh.edu/node/1163

More on the tar and feathering of Joseph Smith:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.reli ... 8a6fed9bfa

http://www.fourth-millennium.net/family ... icles.html


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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:34 pm 
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When you think about it, they might have been doing horny Joe a favor had they succeeded in their castration attempt. As a eunuch, Smith would never have faced the problems resulting from his promiscuity in Nauvoo. No testes=no Nauvoo Expositor=no Carthage=no institutionalized polygamy, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Is there any truth to the story that years later Brigham Young taunted Orson Hyde with the details of the Prophets relationship with young Nancy and as a result he divorced her?

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:26 pm 
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I don't actually see any differences between the two versions, other than the anti-mormon one being slightly more detailed because they were perpetrators of the crime.

Further, I'm actually surprised by the anti-mormon version because it's not very anti-mormon. It actually seemed entirely objective and factual.

The only thing anti-mormon I see in it is some of the 'reasons' claimed for doing what they did, but that clearly relates back to the LDS version in which it says the reasons the thing occurred was because of "lies" said of Joseph and the Church. Clearly the anti-mormon reasons were simply "rumor mill", not even based on any facts. Since rumors are often lies, that ultimately means there is no actual difference between the two versions. A little truth perverted into lie, fomenting the wicked to commit wicked acts, was the ultimate result.


Last edited by ldsfaqs on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:36 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Since rumors are often lies, just as most of the violence against the Church was, . . .

Wow, ldsfaqs. I never thought I'd see you admit that most of the (reported) violence against the church was just rumors and often lies.

I'm proud of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:32 am 
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Stop referring to the one version as 'anti-Mormon'. Using that label immediately makes people think it's false. A balanced person would call it 'critic's version'.


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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:44 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
Since rumors are often lies, just as most of the violence against the Church was, . . .

Wow, ldsfaqs. I never thought I'd see you admit that most of the (reported) violence against the church was just rumors and often lies.

I'm proud of you.


Sorry, I wasn't clear in my typing there.... NO, that's not what I meant.
The reports and the violence thereof DID occur.


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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:24 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my typing there.... NO, that's not what I meant.
The reports and the violence thereof DID occur.



And yet - mr universe, you provide no substance to support your claims. Shocking. I think you need to spend more time doing full body fit and not defending the LDS social club...

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:27 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
I don't actually see any differences between the two versions, other than the anti-mormon one being slightly more detailed because they were perpetrators of the crime.

Further, I'm actually surprised by the anti-mormon version because it's not very anti-mormon. It actually seemed entirely objective and factual.

The only thing anti-mormon I see in it is some of the 'reasons' claimed for doing what they did, but that clearly relates back to the LDS version in which it says the reasons the thing occurred was because of "lies" said of Joseph and the Church. Clearly the anti-mormon reasons were simply "rumor mill", not even based on any facts. Since rumors are often lies, that ultimately means there is no actual difference between the two versions. A little truth perverted into lie, fomenting the wicked to commit wicked acts, was the ultimate result.


Ldsfaqs, the Church version portrays the reason for the attack was Joseph's faithfulness to his religion.

The non Church version portrays the reason as his illegal or immoral activity with men's wives and daughters.

Which do you think is accurate and what do you base that view on?

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
I don't actually see any differences between the two versions, other than the anti-mormon one being slightly more detailed because they were perpetrators of the crime.

Further, I'm actually surprised by the anti-mormon version because it's not very anti-mormon. It actually seemed entirely objective and factual.

The only thing anti-mormon I see in it is some of the 'reasons' claimed for doing what they did, but that clearly relates back to the LDS version in which it says the reasons the thing occurred was because of "lies" said of Joseph and the Church. Clearly the anti-mormon reasons were simply "rumor mill", not even based on any facts. Since rumors are often lies, that ultimately means there is no actual difference between the two versions. A little truth perverted into lie, fomenting the wicked to commit wicked acts, was the ultimate result.


Ldsfaqs, the Church version portrays the reason for the attack was Joseph's faithfulness to his religion.

The non Church version portrays the reason as his illegal or immoral activity with men's wives and daughters.

Which do you think is accurate and what do you base that view on?


Like I said.... One is based on simply what happened, and the other is based on some of the reasonings the thing happened based on the "rumor mill", not any actual known sin or immoral activity.

Further, you misrepresent the Churches version, the Churches version does in fact indicate that there were various false "evils" claimed against the Church and Joseph.

I think both are accurate..... Which is something I already said surprised me.
The anti-mormon version didn't really lie about anything. However, their version DID omit the true cause which was their bigotry. But, with both versions, that lie was clear.


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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:29 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
I think both are accurate..... Which is something I already said surprised me.
The anti-mormon version didn't really lie about anything. However, their version DID omit the true cause which was their bigotry. But, with both versions, that lie was clear.


So in your estimation, when someone takes exception to a grown, married man having sexual relations with a 16 year-old girl, this is bigotry?

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:33 pm 
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I think he is confusing bigotry and bigamy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Can anybody corroborate this:
Quote:
The bottle of acid broke, chipping one of Joseph’s teeth and causing him to speak with a whistle for the rest of his life.

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 Post subject: Re: Tar & Feather Tale - which version is true?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
I think both are accurate..... Which is something I already said surprised me.
The anti-mormon version didn't really lie about anything. However, their version DID omit the true cause which was their bigotry. But, with both versions, that lie was clear.


So in your estimation, when someone takes exception to a grown, married man having sexual relations with a 16 year-old girl, this is bigotry?


That's called a RUMOR..... Do YOU try to KILL PEOPLE over a rumor????

Are you people so clueless to understand that whatever the "excuse" was, already existing prejudice, religious bigotry, etc. was the ROOT cause of every action???


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