Apologists Turned Critics

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_Runtu
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Apologists Turned Critics

Post by _Runtu »

On the other board, David B. is speculating about people who go from being apologists to being critics and what motivates them. It seems obvious that he has Kevin in mind, but then I fit the "apologist-turned-critic" model as well, though I wouldn't say I was particularly good at either role.

Do any of you consider yourselves to have once been apologists? If so, what motivated you to "switch teams"?

For me, it was just a sudden realization that my apologetics consisted of rationalizing a whole lot of stuff that bothered my conscience.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Kevin Graham
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Post by _Kevin Graham »

For me, it was just a sudden realization that my apologetics consisted of rationalizing a whole lot of stuff that bothered my conscience.


I'd suspect that's the answer that resonates with most former apologists here. Some of us here were once missionaries. That made us apologists at least once in our lives.
_Kevin Graham
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Post by _Kevin Graham »

It should be obvious that Bokovoy is uncomfortable with the apparent threat I present, not only at MAD, but also while posting here. There must be some people wondering why an LDS apologist could ever turn critical of the Book of Abraham. Bokovoy doesn't wan't them to come here and ask me what my reasons are. He'd rather explain it to them himself, and of course, we know what that means. He follows the usual outline provided in the LDS paradigm. Those who fall away are spiritually bankrupt, greedy, are out for money, fame, etc.

I am just glad there doesn't seem to be anyone who is buying into his nonsense.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

I am pretty sure that the poster known as "Brackite" was also a former apologist.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Mister Scratch wrote:I am pretty sure that the poster known as "Brackite" was also a former apologist.


I think you're right. I believe he was an apologist back when I was.

I guess what irks me is the idea that those of us who became critics have some sort of innate disdain for apologists. You can change your mind without being snotty about it, can't you?
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_SatanWasSetUp
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Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

This brings up a question. Are there more defectors from the apologist camp or the critic camp? I personally have witnessed more former apologists turned critics, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. I've never seen a former critic join the apologists. Of course the vocal apologists and critics are a minority. Most people join the church quietly or leave the church quietly without really digging into the issues and debating them, but of the apologists and critics who are down in the dirt debating the evidence, the few who eventually do turn tend to be the apologists. At least that's my personal experience.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
_Brackite
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Post by _Brackite »

Mister Scratch wrote:I am pretty sure that the poster known as "Brackite" was also a former apologist.


Hi There Mister Scratch,

Yes, You are right about that. I am a former Internet LDS Apologist.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Apologists Turned Critics

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Runtu wrote:On the other board, David B. is speculating about people who go from being apologists to being critics and what motivates them. It seems obvious that he has Kevin in mind, but then I fit the "apologist-turned-critic" model as well, though I wouldn't say I was particularly good at either role.

Do any of you consider yourselves to have once been apologists? If so, what motivated you to "switch teams"?

For me, it was just a sudden realization that my apologetics consisted of rationalizing a whole lot of stuff that bothered my conscience.


I guess I was a hobby apologist but I am not really a critic. But I am more skeptical, more liberal, more of a fringer.

I spent a lot of time with apologetics. For my personal files I wrote a lot of stuff rebutting. But as I explored more, like you there was a lot of rationalizing.

One big thing for me was the "that is just their opinion" defense. Now I am ok with that some but not for almost everything that we find odd, weird or uncomfortable. McConkie was once lauded as a theologian. I used to love his stuff. Then he dies and 10 years later he is an embarrassment. He did not consider a lot of what her wrote as opinion only. BY certainly did not. But the apologists do. Why should I take the apologist work for it over the ones we call apostles and prophets. I can just see a FARMS writer telling BY that BYs teaching on polygamy were just his opinion.

Also I was increasingly bothered by the fact that when members dig into history and they find things that bother them that the apologist blamed them but never the Church for it teaching the plain vanilla mythical faith promoting story of history. Honest members who were honestly disturbed are marginalized as some sort of lazy idiot for basically sticking to authorized LDS Sources. This treatment bugged me.

Last of all, and maybe the internet did this for me, as I got to know exmo's and some never mo critics I came to see not all are pond scum. I found most who left did it under agonizing personal turmoil, risked a lot and still have to work through issues related to family, work and social circles. And most are pretty good people. I also found that atheists are not evil threats in general and many are actually very thoughtful about life, morals and values.

Well, that is just part of it.
_richardMdBorn
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Re: Apologists Turned Critics

Post by _richardMdBorn »

Jason Bourne wrote:I guess I was a hobby apologist but I am not really a critic. But I am more skeptical, more liberal, more of a fringer.

I spent a lot of time with apologetics. For my personal files I wrote a lot of stuff rebutting. But as I explored more, like you there was a lot of rationalizing.

One big thing for me was the "that is just their opinion" defense. Now I am ok with that some but not for almost everything that we find odd, weird or uncomfortable. McConkie was once lauded as a theologian. I used to love his stuff. Then he dies and 10 years later he is an embarrassment. He did not consider a lot of what her wrote as opinion only. BY certainly did not. But the apologists do. Why should I take the apologist work for it over the ones we call apostles and prophets. I can just see a FARMS writer telling BY that BYs teaching on polygamy were just his opinion.
Hi Jason,

I used to tease the LDS that I'm writing now the arguments FARMS will be using in twenty years. I doubt GBH today. His comments will be "just his opinions" in twenty years or so according to FARMS.

Richard
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