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 Post subject: The most vile and addicting anti-mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:45 am 
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It has been 9 months since my first unabashed viewing of anti-mormon literature online so I thought it would be a good time to jot down a list - from memory - of the most vile and addicting pieces of literature I have found online. This list is founded on my opinion; open to debate. I add these sites on the list for being the most affecting to me and causing great harm to my furry little testimonkey. Note I have read books but they were not online so I will not mention those in the list. I give special thanks to Polygamy-Porter for pointing me in the direction of my latest little addicting treasure, which I will put at the top of my list (No. 1). These are not in any order of significance except that No. 1 happens to be the one I was most recently looking at. Here it is:

1. wikipedia: confirmation bias
2. wikipedia: critical thinking
3. wikipedia: Christianity
4. wikipedia: Restorationism (Christian primitivism)
5. wikipedia: Documentary hypothesis
6. UD's http://www.olivercowdery.com
7. UD's http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/
8. Beastie's http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
9. http://www.familysearch.org
10. wikipedia: harmony society
11. Captain Morgan's freemasonry exposed http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmor ... ntents.htm
12. online D&C 132 (http://www.LDS.org)
13. Diary of Joseph Smith 1832-1838 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Diary_of_ ... 32-1834%29
14. Newtonian worldview: http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/NEWTONWV.html
15. ensign articles and YM manuals online (conflicting doctrines on conditional love) http://www.LDS.org
16. wikipedia: book of abraham facsimiles
17. wikipedia: first vision
18. wikipedia: Emanuel Swedenborg

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:53 am 
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Someone with a knack for webdesign and a kind heart really should help beastie out there.


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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:11 am 
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Thanks for the list, Zee. I didn't realize that Wiki was such a treasure trove. I will spend some time there.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:18 am 
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zeezrom wrote:
12. online D&C 132 (http://www.LDS.org)


I will have to check out some of these that I have never looked at before.
For me Section 132 is the most vile anti Mormon literature out there.
The Corporation of the President should issue a mandate that members are not to look at section 132 since it is way to anti for the average member.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:28 am 
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Quote:
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.


You meant this? http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/dc/132

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:34 am 
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Someone with a knack for webdesign and a kind heart really should help beastie out there.


I agree, along with Metcalfe's atrocious website, and that bookofabraham.com hideous thing. Critics just cannot make good websites!


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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:42 am 
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Simon Belmont wrote:
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Someone with a knack for webdesign and a kind heart really should help beastie out there.


I agree, along with Metcalfe's atrocious website, and that bookofabraham.com hideous thing. Critics just cannot make good websites!

there must be another reason they are so addicting then, hmm?

Anyone know how much LDS spends on web design and web publishing and maintenance of their online material? They probably have a little bit more $$ than say, Beastie or UD, who did that out of the kindness of their heart.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:32 am 
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PS - how many out there are concerned about my heavy references to the Wiki?

Why?

Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:42 am 
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zeezrom wrote:
PS - how many out there are concerned about my heavy references to the Wiki?

Why?

Thank you.


I am.

Most people don't see the terrible politics that go on at Wikipedia, and how people can just create articles without much oversight and if anyone challenges them, just get a few of their friends help vote the challenges down. It's a fine place to start, but I attribute most people's bad understanding of various topics to that website. Wittgenstein anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:52 am 
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One of wiki's core leaders is a person I was a online "pen pal" with back in the early days of the internet when we were teenagers. I found him/her/it searching for Myers-Briggs INTP's like myself.

True story.

Wiki is all over the place in terms of quality and detail of information. When it comes to things I know a lot about, some pages are fantastic, others are a joke, and most are somewhere inbetween. Philosophy tends to get raped, and that seems to be Stak's area of expertise, so that might make him look low on it in general. My advice would be to stay away from topics that have a lot of ideologically motivated controversy and topics where lots of people fancy themselves having a learned opinion without professional background. But at the end of the day, its accuracy is no worse than an standard encyclopedia. I think that says more about Britannica than wiki, but there you go.


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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:55 am 
God
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MrStakhanovite wrote:
I am.

Most people don't see the terrible politics that go on at Wikipedia, and how people can just create articles without much oversight and if anyone challenges them, just get a few of their friends help vote the challenges down. It's a fine place to start, but I attribute most people's bad understanding of various topics to that website. Wittgenstein anyone?

Great. I'm willing to reconsider the facts I have read about on the Wiki and from within the many sources these articles reference. Maybe we should start at the top of my list and work our way down?

This site encourages us to use judgment as we read these articles and to make use of the references sited. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Schools. That, I feel confident I have done.

I would also like to note that I found some liberties taken on sites like Mormon Think, which happens to be peer reviewed by less people than the wiki pages I referenced. I also feel like Mr. Bushman takes many, many liberties in his use of language in Rough Stone Rolling. How many reviews has RSR gone through? How reliable is RSR?

So, back to my list: #1

Can anyone find inaccurate information regarding the topic of confirmation bias on the Wiki? I would like to know about it as I'm sure Wiki would like to know.

Here are some critical sentences that I would put more weight on. These few sentences have done my poor little testimonkey tons of damage. I'm very interested in where these might be inaccurate:

Quote:
"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. Experiments have repeatedly found that people tend to test hypotheses in a one-sided way, by searching for evidence consistent with the hypothesis they hold at a given time"

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:08 am 
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zeezrom wrote:

I would also like to note that I found some liberties taken on sites like Mormon Think, which happens to be peer reviewed by less people than the wiki pages I referenced.


Do you have any examples Zee?

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:21 am 
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Willy Law wrote:
zeezrom wrote:

I would also like to note that I found some liberties taken on sites like Mormon Think, which happens to be peer reviewed by less people than the wiki pages I referenced.


Do you have any examples Zee?

I"m sorry everyone!

I got Rethinking Mormonism (http://www.i4m.com) mixed up with Mormon Think!

This is the site that I feel took some liberties: http://i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm and it was discussed here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14673

Here is an argument that is not well supported by facts (bold mine):

Quote:
6. Creation and Wearing of Secret Garments
These too, were a result of Smith's polygamous affairs. It started with the secret circle of men that accepted and practiced his plural wife doctrine. It was his way of setting them apart from monogamous men. It was originally the "uniform" required for men to perform spiritual wifery. Reference from Emma Hale Smith Biography, page 140: "After being involved in the construction and design of the garments, the building of the temple, and hearing about their place in the endowment in the Relief Society (by Smith), why had women not been admitted to the Endowment? Joseph taught that a man must obey God to be worthy of the endowment and that a wife must obey a righteous husband to merit the same reward. Until Emma could be obedient to Joseph (see D&C Sec. 132) and give him plural wives, she could not participate in the endowment ceremonies, yet Smith taught her that the endowment was essential for exaltation."

Brigham Young and Joseph F. Smith condemned Smith for taking off his garments before he went to Carthage Jail. Part of their reason was that it was a sign he had regretted his practice of polygamy. "Smith removed his own endowment "robe" or garment before he went to Carthage Jail and told those with him to do likewise. His nephew Joseph F. Smith later explained, "When Willard Richards was solicited [by Smith] to do the same, he declined, and it seems little less than marvelous that he was preserved without so much as a bullet piercing his garments."" (The Mormon Hierarchy : Origins of Power, page 146) Michael Quinn references Heber J. Grant journal sheets, 7 June 1907, LDS Archives.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:29 am 
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Is i4m.com run by evangelicals?
While I agree with their statement that garments were a result of polygamy I get what you are saying. They are making some leaps that are far from provable.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:35 am 
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So I need to ask this:

How long would an argument like that about the origin of garments (made on Rethinking Mormonism) last on Wikipedia?

I wish I had the ability to experiment with that.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:56 am 
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Thank goodness I didn't make this list.

Besides, I'm not anti-Mormon, I'm pro-truth.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:16 pm 
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Infymus wrote:
Besides, I'm not anti-Mormon, I'm pro-truth.

Yeah.

I worried what you might think if I did not include your sites in my list. The truth of the matter is I avoided any site that had the appearance of a exmormon content. Back then, exmormon equaled anti which equaled something tainted or dirty.

At the beginning, I was nervous looking at a webpage with the big huge words Mormon Curtain or Mormon Resignation or Ex-Mormon Forums at the top. It felt wrong. You know, "the spirit left the room" kind of wrong. LOL. It was scary enough to know that I was actually thinking that Joseph Smith was a liar. I'm over it now so I have no problem looking at your sites and thank you for your efforts. Hopefully you understand why I avoided them for so long - during the critical, truth seeking periods.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:40 pm 
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zeezrom wrote:
Infymus wrote:
Besides, I'm not anti-Mormon, I'm pro-truth.

Yeah.

I worried what you might think if I did not include your sites in my list. The truth of the matter is I avoided any site that had the appearance of a exmormon content. Back then, exmormon equaled anti which equaled something tainted or dirty.

At the beginning, I was nervous looking at a webpage with the big huge words Mormon Curtain or Mormon Resignation or Ex-Mormon Forums at the top. It felt wrong. You know, "the spirit left the room" kind of wrong. LOL. It was scary enough to know that I was actually thinking that Joseph Smith was a liar. I'm over it now so I have no problem looking at your sites and thank you for your efforts. Hopefully you understand why I avoided them for so long - during the critical, truth seeking periods.
Which is by design if you think about it.

I too stayed away from those other websites that were just brimming with the plain truth, so much truth it just felt like an anti site.. Joseph did WHAT??? NO WAY! Joseph said WHAT?? NO WAY! This must be an anti Mormon lie!

So off I go to the then FAIR boards.

The arrogance and self righteous indignation of the main posters on that board acted as an apostasy catalyst which fueled my hunger for the truth to the point of a devouring rage.

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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:39 pm 
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As long as we are making Wikipedia confessions, I'd just like to admit that I have had a long and sordid past of wiki vandalism, so I come from a very jaded PoV.


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 Post subject: Re: The most vile and addicting anti-Mormon literature list
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Infymus wrote:
Besides, I'm not anti-Mormon, I'm pro-truth.

There you go, Infymus, being redundant again.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Last edited by Ezias on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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