What is or is not a Mormon???

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: What is or is not a Mormon???

Post by _Mister Scratch »

OUT OF MY MISERY wrote:What makes someone a TBM Mormon???

What makes someone a regular Mormon???

What makes someone a only Sunday Mormon or a cafeteria Mormon??? (I think I know what that means)

What makes someone a NON-MORMON???

What makes someone an EX-MORMON???

What makes someone an ANTI-MORMON???


I am lost as to the differences as many others are.

Are there any differences really, are we all Mormons???


I would like some clarification as to the differences between what separates us all from each other.

Maybe we are not separate at all, maybe we are all the same?

Who knows???? or for that matter who cares.......

I hope everything I just posted makes sense......
Answer the best you can...thanks


An excellent post, Misery! I think that many of the differences are rather subtle. I also think that this is one of the battlegrounds in the world of online LDS discussions: it is very, very important (generally speaking) for apologists to be able to apply labels such as "anti-Mormon" or "ex-Mormon" to their opponents. They need this as a kind of rhetorical strategy which is somewhat related to the Straw Man fallacy. Conversely, it seems to me that critics do not need these labels in order to engage in the discussion, or in any case seem far less dependent upon them in the context of debate.
_Seven
_Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Re: What is or is not a Mormon???

Post by _Seven »

OUT OF MY MISERY wrote:
What makes someone a only Sunday Mormon or a cafeteria Mormon??? (I think I know what that means)





From Wikepedia: (couldn't find a definition for cafeteria Mormon)

"The term Cafeteria Catholic (also à la carte Catholic or CINO = "Catholic In Name Only") is a pejorative or an insulting characterization and is used to describe people who dissent from certain teachings of the Roman Catholic Church while maintaining an outward identity as Catholics. These people are said to view the Church much like a cafeteria, a place where one picks and chooses only those items that appeal to them. The term is typically applied to those who dissent from the Catholic Church's teaching on moral issues, such as abortion, contraception, premarital sex, and homosexuality. Groups which have been labeled as such include Call to Action, FutureChurch, DignityUSA, and Catholics for a Free Choice. Many who view the term pejoratively, believe dissent from the constant teaching of the Church to be a form of devoutness. It should be noted that this epithet is not used or created by the official church."

If we take this definition and apply it to Mormonism it could read like this:

The term Cafeteria Mormon is a pejorative or an insulting characterization and is used to describe people who dissent from certain teachings of the LDS Church while maintaining an outward identity as Mormons. These people are said to view the Church much like a cafeteria, a place where one picks and chooses only those items that appeal to them. The term is typically applied to those who dissent from the LDS Church's teachings, such as polygamy, contraception, Word of Wisdom (eating meat), and anything formerly taught or revealed by deceased Prophets. Groups which qualify for this definition include 99% of current active Temple recommend holding LDS.
Last edited by Shadrak on Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

SEVEN wrote:The term Cafeteria Mormon is a pejorative or an insulting characterization and is used to describe people who dissent from certain teachings of the LDS Church while maintaining an outward identity as Mormons. These people are said to view the Church much like a cafeteria, a place where one picks and chooses only those items that appeal to them. The term is typically applied to those who dissent from the LDS Church's teachings, such as polygamy, contraception, Word of Wisdom (eating meat), and anything formerly taught or revealed by deceased Prophets. Groups which qualify for this definition include 99% of current active Temple recommend holding LDS.


LOL! You are awesome! You're also correct! ;)
_Seven
_Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Re: What is or is not a Mormon???

Post by _Seven »

"OUT OF MY MISERY"]What makes someone a TBM Mormon???

What makes someone a regular Mormon???

What makes someone a NON-MORMON???

What makes someone an EX-MORMON???

What makes someone an ANTI-MORMON???


I am lost as to the differences as many others are.

Are there any differences really, are we all Mormons???


I would say for those born in the faith or who come from polygamy stock the answer is "yes." Mormons are lke a new race of people and thanks to most of the early LDS sharing the same father, you can spot a Mormon in the middle of New York City.


Even though I do not believe the way most LDS do and am currently inactive, I would still consider myself Mormon because the culture/values I was raised with are ingrained in me.


Ex-Mormon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Ex-Mormon refers to a former or inactive member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or any one of the Latter Day Saint denominations, colloquially and collectively called "Mormonism." Ex-Mormon may also refer to various aggregations of ex-Mormons who comprise a social movement. Ex-Mormons should not be confused with Jack Mormons ("dry-Mormons"), who often have no philosophical disagreement with the LDS church but do not participate, or Cultural Mormons who consider non-belief irrelevant to their adoption of the Mormon lifestyle and identity. The distinction is important to ex-Mormons, many of whom see themselves as conscientious objectors to the religion's teachings or practices, and who see their decision to leave as morally compelling and socially risky. The latter applies as some ex-Mormons later find themselves shunned by Mormon friends and family after their exit.[1] Ex-mormons leave Mormonism at a cost,[2] often missing out on major family events such as temple weddings which are limited to active members of the LDS church meeting certain requirements of the religion.

Ex-Mormon is sometimes abbreviated as "exmo."


I didn't realize my inactivity qualified me and the majority of LDS members as "ex-mo". Interesting.

More from Wikipedia
The term Mormon [6] was first used in modern times in the 1830s as a pejorative to describe those who believed that Joseph Smith, Jr. had been called as a prophet of God, and who accepted the Book of Mormon as scripture.

The term Mormon continues to be used to refer to members of this group that followed Brigham Young, including The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but not to related smaller denominations that separated from this group over issues such as polygamy. Individual leaders within the hierarchy of the LDS Church have sometimes made explicit effort to reject the use of the term "Mormon," as it does not include a reference to Jesus, whom the Church asserts to be its central figure.[7] As a general policy, however, while the Church prefers the use of its full name, use of the term LDS or Mormon is not considered offensive or incorrect.[8]


Anti Mormon from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mormon
Official views of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

"[A]postates after turning from the faith of Christ ... have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. From apostates the faithful have received the severest persecutions ... 'When once that light which was in them is taken from them, they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth,' and they, Judas like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors."[67]

In 1985, Vaughn J. Featherstone, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy of the LDS Church addressed students at the Church-owned Brigham Young University, calling anti-Mormon material "theological pornography that is damaging to the spirit," stating that "none of it is worth casting an eye upon. Do not read the anti-Mormon materials. That is not the way you resolve questions about the truthfulness of the restored gospel."[68] Also, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who "support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church" may be subject to disciplinary action, such as being released from certain leadership positions, being refused entry into Mormon temples, disfellowshipment, and possibly excommunication.[69]


Rejection of the term
Many of those who have been labeled "anti-Mormon" object to the designation, arguing that the term implies that disagreement or criticism of Mormonism stems from some inherent "anti-Mormon" prejudice, rather than being part of a legitimate factual or religious debate. Eric Johnson, for example, makes a distinction between "personal animosity and intellectual dialogue". Johnson insists that he is motivated by "love and compassion for Mormons", and that while he "[might] plead guilty to being against Mormonism", he finds the suggestion that he is anti-Mormon "both offensive and inaccurate."[8] Stephen Cannon elaborates,

It is also helpful to know that Mormons are a group of people united around a belief system. Therefore, to be “anti-Mormon” is to be against people. Christians who desire to communicate the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Mormons are never to come against people of any stripe. Yes, evangelical Christians do have strong disagreements with Mormonism, but the argument is with a belief system and not a people. The LDS people are no better or no worse than any other group of people. Any dispute is to be a disagreement with the “ism,” not the “Mormon.”[9]

Some Latter-day Saints, however, are of the opinion that to condemn their beliefs is to condemn those who hold those beliefs.

James White, meanwhile, rejects the term because of a lack of reciprocal terminology. He wrote to one LDS apologist, "If you will identify yourself as an anti-Baptist, I'll let you call me an anti-Mormon."[10]

Even some members of the Church who write negatively about it, especially those who call into question its divine nature, have had their writings labeled anti-Mormon. Members critical of the church tend to get disfellowshipped or excommunicated, making active members less likely to approach their work (cf. the September Six, Grant Palmer, Thomas W. Murphy, etc). Ex-Mormons who write about the church are likewise frequently labeled anti-Mormon, even when their writings are not inflammatory in nature.[11] The debate on who is "anti-Mormon" frequently arises in Mormon discussions of authors and sources. One view suggests, "It’s just another label used to draw the line in the sand and separate us and them." Another view suggests, "Everyone is anti- when they’re not pro-."[12]

Stephen Cannon has argued that use of the label is a "campaign by Latter-day Saints to disavow the facts presented by simply labeling the source as 'anti-Mormon'". He expounds on this in Games Mormon People Play: The Strategies and Diversions of Latter-day Saint Apologists:

This writer has seen rank-and-file Mormons 'tune out' valid historical information that put their church leaders in a negative light simply because it came from an 'anti-Mormon.' I believe it is advantageous for Mormon scholars to put critics in as negative a light as possible so as to keep the maximum number of church members isolated from revealing facts. The first line of defense seems to be getting that 'anti-Mormon' label painted on critics as quickly as possible.[13]

Some critics of the term also claim that the LDS Church frames the context of persecution in order to cultivate a persecution complex,[14] or that Mormon authors promote the ideal of a promised heavenly reward for enduring persecution for one's beliefs.[15]

[i][i]Mormons respond to these accusations by questioning whether critics like Johnson and Cannon really have Mormons' best interests at heart. For Brigham Young University's 100 Hour Board, the "anti-Mormon" label serves the constructive purpose of warning Latter-day Saints away from individuals who espouse "hatred and bigotry". It is better, says the Board, for a confused Saint to "talk to someone... that (1) has your best interests at heart, and (2) actually understands what the Church teaches."[16]


*Where would a "confused saint" find such a person? Isn't MAD/FAIR/FARMS supposed to be the type of place for confused saints exposed to church history? I wonder if the church leaders realize how many confused saints are accused of being "anti Mormon" by apologists or TBM's the moment they seek understanding and help on tough issues.

There is no grey area among apologists and TBM's for faithful LDS that question Mormon teachings and history. You are anti Mormon in their eyes.
_Seven
_Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Re: What is or is not a Mormon???

Post by _Seven »

quote="OUT OF MY MISERY
What makes someone a TBM Mormon???


From Wikipedia:
True Believing Mormon (also True Blue Mormon, Truly Brainwashed Mormon, etc.), a somewhat pejorative term for an "overly faithful" member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One that does not express doubt or scepticism with statements from the current prophet, the First Presidency, general authorities or proclamations issued from them.

From RFM: Tal Bachman had posted a guide for levels of TBM women:

Subject:
Improving Cult Rescue Efforts: Cataloguing spousal types on the KDOM scale (level of Kolobian Death Oath Morgbotitude)

Author:
Tal Bachman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Often people come on talking about how, after a lifetime in the church, they've just put it all together, and wondering what they should do. In particular, there seems to be quite a few men with wives who won't listen to them.

So I'm thinking, in the interests of improving our cult recovery/rescue efforts, we ought to come up with a shorthand descriptive code for still-in wives and husbands (on the KDOM scale), and then devise some kind of general protocol for communication attempts. Here's a first draft for wives.

Level 1.) Inactive, but has never really considered whether the church might be a fraud, and so takes for granted it's true.

Level 2.) Semi-active, pretty liberal about everything, leaves garments off sometimes, doesn't read the scriptures or bother about Family Home Evenings or food storage, might serve in primary, doesn't really talk about the church much outside of church meetings, has a gay friend; also has always just taken for granted that the church is true, but has never really thought about it that much.

Level 3.) Fully active, every once in a while mentions she might have a "hard time if polygamy came back" and so doesn't focus on it, bears testimony once in a while, has three or four little kids, maybe serves as an RS counselor or in YW. Makes sure the family has prayers, that the kids learn the Articles of Faith, but doesn't mind watching TV or movies on Sunday. Doesn't read a lot of Mormon history; pretty average scripture reader. Has a few pretty close non-Mormon friends.

Level 4.) Makes sure there's a picture of the prophet on the wall at home; regularly brings children up to stand at testimony meeting to whisper in their ears and then bear hers about "how glad I am to have the priesthood in my home"; always watches conference; insists on having FHE every Monday; wants five or six kids; frequently reads scriptures on her own; is really grateful that Pres. Hinckley warned the world about the dangers of wearing two earrings in one ear; walks out of movies she finds offensive; complains to school teachers about some of the "immoral" content of their lessons, and every once in a while considers, or even attempts, homeschooling the children; has the Book of Mormon videotapes for the kids; sometimes puts on MoTab or Janice Kapp Perry in the mornings before school; likes reading the Ensign or other faith-promoting church material. Would never think of taking a job "outside the home".

Level 5). In addition to following the Level 4 stuff, Level Fives frequently receive important revelations for the children and for the family; will read virtually no church history from any source, not even the church, since "you never know where Satan has put something"; still (quietly) think there is something profoundly wrong with black people; and they ask for a lot of priesthood blessings. She may have cut off cable altogether, has no interests outside the church, nor any close non-Mormon friends, has never been to a concert or professional sporting event, very rarely if ever reads any non-church material of any type, confining herself mostly to the scriptures and the Ensign; and at dinner will frequently relate stories about the "promptings" and insights she had during the day. Level Fives would hand over their ten year old daughters for the prophet to have sex with "if he asked, since he can't lead us astray", and have no problem being upfront with sisters who don't do things "correctly" in Relief Society. If pressed, a Level 5 would say that EVEN IF it could ever be known that Joseph didn't have or use any plates during translation, or wasn't really visited by God and Jesus, that "the church would still be true, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it is".

Someone want to do up the list for husbands? All I can think of right now is that maybe the Level Five guy would just be like:

Level 5.) Complete ass.

I'm not sure if maybe this is in as much poor taste as Elder Bradford rankings, which I mentioned a while ago. If so, I'll erase it. I was just thinking it might be kind of cool for newbies to come on and say, "I have a problem - my husband or wife is a Level Three, and I just found out the church is a fraud", or something, and then we just say, "okay, check out the advice for dealing with Level 3's".

T.
_OUT OF MY MISERY
_Emeritus
Posts: 922
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:32 pm

Post by _OUT OF MY MISERY »

Thanks Seven you have provided the most accurate definitions to my questions.

I consider myself a ex-mormon for sure even though so much is so ingrained in me I would never identify myself as a Mormon.....
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
Post Reply