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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:30 pm 
God

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Friends on Facebook are claiming this person was a gay woman of color, and they're criticizing the Church for not mentioning this fact.


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Friends on Facebook are claiming this person was a gay woman of color, and they're criticizing the Church for not mentioning this fact.


The first thing that went through my mind when this story broke was that it involved suicide because of LGBT shaming from the church. I wonder if my first impressions were correct. If so, I really hate the church more than ever.

:evil:

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Friends on Facebook are claiming this person was a gay woman of color, and they're criticizing the Church for not mentioning this fact.


How can we find out?

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:
Friends on Facebook are claiming this person was a gay woman of color, and they're criticizing the Church for not mentioning this fact.


The first thing that went through my mind when this story broke was that it involved suicide because of LGBT shaming from the church. I wonder if my first impressions were correct. If so, I really hate the church more than ever.

:evil:


Horrifying if true. My sibling went through so much hell coming out as a member of the Church. I am so thankful that we can look back and say that we got out and everyone is doing okay now. I was able to locate books giving to my sibling about how to still be a member of good standing in the Church. The books are sickening.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:59 pm 
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lostindc wrote:
I was able to locate books giving to my sibling about how to still be a member of good standing in the Church. The books are sickening.


All those years of living a lie was enough wherein towards the end I literally walked around in a daze just wanting to die. I felt like a walking dead man. It was so unhealthy and so unnatural. being gay and Mormon doesn't mix anymore than water and oil.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
How can we find out?

Girl, there ain't nothing you can't find out. You've got the nose of bloodhound.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:12 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
How can we find out?

Girl, there ain't nothing you can't find out. You've got the nose of bloodhound.

:lol:

You've clearly interacted with me far too long. ;-) I'll find out eventually or someone else will.

Here is the thing. Let's say this is true. That the young woman was gay and let's assume for the moment that she was also LDS.

If she were to follow the teachings of her church, she would spend her life without the love of a partner.

Or...she would spend her life with the love of a partner, possibly marrying, and one day wish to have children with her.

Look what she would have been setting herself up for spiritually and look at what she would have been facing in terms of setting up her children spiritually.

I can't begin to imagine the sheer self condemnation she might have struggled with.

I'm sick and tired of reading about the social, emotional, psychological and spiritual mind ____ that the LDS Church places on it's young people. Either those who are gay or those who are children of gay parents.

It's so obviously corrosive. It's so obviously deadly.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
lostindc wrote:
I was able to locate books giving to my sibling about how to still be a member of good standing in the Church. The books are sickening.


All those years of living a lie was enough wherein towards the end I literally walked around in a daze just wanting to die. I felt like a walking dead man. It was so unhealthy and so unnatural. being gay and Mormon doesn't mix anymore than water and oil.


My brother experienced a similar deep depression. He left the church young, relatively speaking, at the age of 21 or so. When he left, so many members made it seem as if he was the ultimate failure. I hate those members.

When I was told my sibling is gay, the person telling me started to cry. I was so young, I had no idea what this meant. I started to cry. I will never forget the tone of that conversation, it was like that person announced my brother died. Shortly after, when I figured out what it meant to be gay, like really dwelled on the idea, I was totally cool with it, amazing how adults made us believe it's wrong.

As life moved on, the news spread in my school and I got some ____ for it, but I was fine, it was my sibling I was worried about and thank whatever he was already in college and away from this community. At the time, for my gay sibling, the era sucked, the place sucked where we lived, the people were awful, and the Church behaved horrifically. I left the Church around 16, I returned for a number of years in my mid 20s (long story), and then one day, while driving to Church, I pulled up into the Church parking lot, and I couldn't get out, I quickly pulled out and decided I would take my kids to the Smithsonian (typical outing for us at the time) and I never went back to Church again. Our family gets along, meaning my parents and siblings, but we never fully repaired from the era. It's always there, a feeling of wtf.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Interesting, lostindc , thank you for sharing.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
Students at Brigham Young University are calling on the administration to make changes to its mental health program after a young woman committed suicide this week inside a school building.

People on campus say BYU’s counseling center has been “understaffed” and “overbooked” for months, and many have contemplated taking their own lives while waiting for a spot to open up.

“No one can really get the help they need,” explained Brigham Pitts, a freshman who spoke to The Salt Lake Tribune.

“I think that there’s definitely a problem here,” added Jacob Payne, another freshman. “I think the problem is BYU doesn’t allocate enough resources.”

https://nypost.com/2018/12/05/college-s ... ng-center/

BYU is the Church. Did the Church under resource City Creek? I guess upmarket shopping is a much bigger priority for Jesus and His Apostles than the mental health and wellbeing of young people attending His University.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
After Monday’s incident, Brigham Young University students questioned wait times at the campus counseling center. The school said it will propose adding more therapists when its trustees meet in January. Currently, it has one counselor per 1,000 students.
The counseling office released a statement Wednesday saying the incident “has generated an important discussion about the availability of mental health services on campus.” It reiterated that it has a therapist on staff at all hours that can be reached at 801-422-2222.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/05/ ... attempted/

Why weren't they having that important discussion prior to this students death?

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:07 pm 
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The post on Facebook was:

Quote:
The officials won't talk about the fact that she was a gay woman of color. They also don't talk about the two-month wait for an appointment at the counseling center. We have so far to go.

A source I trust, Lindsay Hansen Park, has spoken with people in her close circle who confirmed this. Lindsay wouldn't have reported this publicly if it weren't very solid. So sad.


Several other people posted that they trust Lindsay on the issue. But I think it is odd her name hasn't been released.

ETA:

Quote:
Lindsay Hansen Park: I am being cited as the original source for this info and that makes me super uncomfortable. My source told me because they didn't believe it was private and are now being told that the family does not want this info discussed. It makes me feel icky so I'm going to delete this comment so it can't be referenced.


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:21 pm 
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It's an absolute ____ show on MDD. It's really unreal how these posters approach such a terrible situation, a defend no matter what approach.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71353-byu-suicide-and-campus-mental-health-appt-wait-times/

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Tragic no matter how or why it happened.

Also, the LDS Church’s leadership has blood on its hands for its policies and doctrines regarding gender.

The Church’s teachings and policies on gender pushed me out the door. Prop 8 was the first thing to shake me. The November policy did me in.

Mormonism should be about two interrelated things: salvation through Christ, and salvation with family.

The idea that God would reject so many family members for being themselves, and that God would drive wedges between family members. It is horrifying. The Church is wrong. Full stop.


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Tragic no matter how or why it happened.

Also, the LDS Church’s leadership has blood on its hands for its policies and doctrines regarding gender.


Yes, it does. No question about it.

Quote:
The Church’s teachings and policies on gender pushed me out the door. Prop 8 was the first thing to shake me. The November policy did me in.


That's because you are a man of integrity. That would have been my breaking point as well. There is no possible way I could have tolerated that. It's so dangerous, so outright deadly.

Quote:
Mormonism should be about two interrelated things: salvation through Christ, and salvation with family.

The idea that God would reject so many family members for being themselves, and that God would drive wedges between family members. It is horrifying. The Church is wrong. Full stop.


I can find no place in the New Testament where Christ obstructs children of gay parents or gay persons from receiving either grace or salvation.

But don't go by me.

How dare a church presume to stand in their way. How dare they.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
lostindc wrote:
I was able to locate books giving to my sibling about how to still be a member of good standing in the Church. The books are sickening.


All those years of living a lie was enough wherein towards the end I literally walked around in a daze just wanting to die. I felt like a walking dead man. It was so unhealthy and so unnatural. being gay and Mormon doesn't mix anymore than water and oil.


I am glad you found your way out. A person deserves to live an authentic life without being shamed.


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:02 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Quote:
After Monday’s incident, Brigham Young University students questioned wait times at the campus counseling center. The school said it will propose adding more therapists when its trustees meet in January. Currently, it has one counselor per 1,000 students.
The counseling office released a statement Wednesday saying the incident “has generated an important discussion about the availability of mental health services on campus.” It reiterated that it has a therapist on staff at all hours that can be reached at 801-422-2222.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/05/ ... attempted/

Why weren't they having that important discussion prior to this students death?


Imagine if the Honor Code Office resources were all syphoned to the Counseling Center instead.


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:02 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
How dare a church presume to stand in their way. How dare they.


The church is an arrogant and daring organization to the extreme. It will continue to operate in the cult like fashion it has since it was first organized. The leadership of the church is made up of men who are arrogant and full of self-righteous pride.

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:04 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
How dare a church presume to stand in their way. How dare they.


The church is an arrogant and daring organization to the extreme. It will continue to operate in the cult like fashion it has since it was first organized. The leadership of the church is made up of men who are arrogant and full of self-righteous pride.


"Shut your taffy pulling mouth, Shulem! We apostles are the most humble men on earth and command you to repent"


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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Fundamentals of Enduring Family Relationships

Ezra Taft Benson
President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
Today we are aware of great problems in our society. The most obvious are sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, drug abuse, alcoholism, vandalism, pornography, and violence.


No wonder the poor girl jumped to her death. Leaders of the church make gay people feel like they are nothing better than whores, drug addicts, drunks, vandals, and violent criminals.

SCREW YOU, EZRA TAFT BENSON -- YOU PIECE OF CRAP!

:evil:

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 Post subject: Re: BYU student UPDATE suicide.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Ezra Taft Benson
President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
Today we are aware of great problems in our society. The most obvious are sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, drug abuse, alcoholism, vandalism, pornography, and violence.


WHICH IS THE SAME AS SAYING:

Ezra Taft Benson
President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
If you're a homosexual or God forbid, a lesbian, you're no better than a drug addict or a drunken whore or worse, a violent vandal. Repent or jump to your death.


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