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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
And, in actuality, he *does not* want anyone to read the book. Down in the comments, one poster claimed to have read it, at which point DCP immediately declared that he was too busy to have a discussion about it. Honestly, I sincerely doubt that DCP read the book himself.


It's a tough call. Yeah, there's not going to be a discussion about this or any other book. But does he want critics to read it? I think it's yes and no.

As an analogy-- for the first time in many years, I have a friend forwarding me right-wing emails. I didn't tell him to but I didn't tell him not to either. He had to forward me a couple because he brought up the points in a conversation and was all confused over them, so I tried to extract the key words to search for later, and he ended up forwarding the emails to me. 60% of the stuff he sends is filtered (based on samples) out by Snopes. Well, he knows about Snopes, and it's really not good enough because it's the most shallow of critiques, and doesn't do justice to what utter garbage this stuff is.

Well, does my friend want me to read this stuff or not? Because when I read it, it's easily refuted and I don't spare the rod. But he just doesn't care. In his right-wing mind, I'm not a liberal at heart, and he thinks one of these days something is going to connect with me. He's encouraged when on the rare occasion, some touching story he says with minimal political investment can't be refuted and so I stay my hand upon the lever and don't flush immediately, or one out of 50 of the jokes I admit is kind of funny.

I do not quite know how to express myself on this matter. If 5% of what he sends me could possibly be true, then while he sits back and invests nothing as far as research goes -- just like DCP -- I have to be open to the possibility that if I read 10,000 of these emails, something is going to get confirmed and so it's a good thing I just don't give up. What I have tried to tell him, unsuccessfully, is that it is like the story of the boy who cried wolf. After the first ten he sent most are outright fabrications from 15 years ago still being recycled by right-wingers, why should I even read a single thing he sends me ever again?

Do you see how the game has changed as we lower our standards? In my entire life, I have never recommended anyone read a book as bad as DCPs recommendation, and I am even counting my teen years when I read some utter crap. And it is obvious. The summary from the publisher alone is enough to wave the hand and move on.

it is like these people have a sense for the power of the failure of the principle of induction. I have to waste time and money on utter crap, because even if the last 99 emails or books i have read are junk, that does not mean things do not turn around at 100. that is their logic because they know they are right, it is just a matter of time before it is demonstrated.

You cannot say anything about the boy who cried wolf because they just do not get it, and if you do a thorough review they won't read it or even care, they are just sitting back and letting you tire yourself out. So in that sense, yeah, they want you to read it because it is a waste of your time and it doesn't hurt them one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Does anyone think that Peterson puts a lot of thought into the things he proposes or writes about? I mean, there are about a dozen or so topics in Mormon History that I am really interested in writing about. I'm lucky if I post three or four articles a year on my blog because of the thought and research and just plain effort that go into writing them. I admire people who can do short blurbs on current events, I'm just not built that way, I guess. I want to thoroughly study out things, plan on how to present and then footnote the hell out of it.

How does Peterson's mind work? I've actually thought about that, and I can't figure him out. As Gad mentioned, what good is recommending that particular book? I can't really see any. It's aimed at a very narrow audience, people that really want to believe that ____. It's really sad that people are duped by authors like Bethell who are targeting a certain audience and make their living the same way that snake oil salesmen did in the 19th century. But what the hell is someone like Peterson doing by claiming the book was "stimulating"? Seems like he is only feeding his dissonance. Because we all know that they know it's all a sham. What's it like to live without integrity? What's it like to be responsible for promoting this crap and helping to dupe people?

I never thought we would live in an age when people are so easily duped by made up BS. I mean, Trump has set the tone and brought this kind of ____ into the mainstream. If Trump claimed there were men on the moon who wore Quaker outfits, his supporters would probably believe him. I'm disgusted and terrified of where this country appears to be headed.

Peterson is doing his bit to help this kind of thinking along. Does he ever think about what he is doing? Or is he an evil degenerate like Trump who only cares about their ego and how they can make a buck?

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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:09 am 
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grindael wrote:
Does anyone think that Peterson puts a lot of thought into the things he proposes or writes about? I mean, there are about a dozen or so topics in Mormon History that I am really interested in writing about. I'm lucky if I post three or four articles a year on my blog because of the thought and research and just plain effort that go into writing them. I admire people who can do short blurbs on current events, I'm just not built that way, I guess. I want to thoroughly study out things, plan on how to present and then footnote the hell out of it.

How does Peterson's mind work? I've actually thought about that, and I can't figure him out. As Gad mentioned, what good is recommending that particular book? I can't really see any. It's aimed at a very narrow audience, people that really want to believe that ____. It's really sad that people are duped by authors like Bethell who are targeting a certain audience and make their living the same way that snake oil salesmen did in the 19th century. But what the hell is someone like Peterson doing by claiming the book was "stimulating"? Seems like he is only feeding his dissonance. Because we all know that they know it's all a sham. What's it like to live without integrity? What's it like to be responsible for promoting this crap and helping to dupe people?

I never thought we would live in an age when people are so easily duped by made up BS. I mean, Trump has set the tone and brought this kind of ____ into the mainstream. If Trump claimed there were men on the moon who wore Quaker outfits, his supporters would probably believe him. I'm disgusted and terrified of where this country appears to be headed.

Peterson is doing his bit to help this kind of thinking along. Does he ever think about what he is doing? Or is he an evil degenerate like Trump who only cares about their ego and how they can make a buck?


Self-deception is a sad process, it is most destructive when a person learns they are or were wrong about something, and rather than admitting it, updating their mindset with the new information, they construct ways to defend themselves from the dissonance. Their world then becomes smaller as well as their autonomy.

On the bright side, and this is what I love about the concept of repentence, is that admitting fault and error when it exists allows a person to understand and learn more. It also frees them, their time and mental energies, to be able to engage in life more directly. And, it's never too late to repent.


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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:14 am 
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Water Dog wrote:
One review.

<snip>

Thank you for posting this. It was fun chasing down some of the (many) things mentioned in the review that I had no bloody idea what they were. I learned a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:26 am 
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So in that sense, yeah, they want you to read it because it is a waste of your time and it doesn't hurt them one way or another.


Dean Robbers, you’ve nailed it right there.


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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:34 am 
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On the heels of raving about Darwin's House of Cards (published by the Discovery Institute), Dr. Peterson is giving an enthusiastic thumbs-up to another Discovery Institute piece of work, this one a documentary titled "Human Zoos: America’s Forgotten History of Scientific Racism." Here's a description:
Quote:
Human Zoos tells the story of how thousands of indigenous peoples were coercively put on public display in America in the early decades of the twentieth century. Often touted as “missing links” between man and apes, these native peoples were harassed, demeaned, and jeered at. Their public display was arranged with the enthusiastic support of the most elite members of the scientific community and government, and it was promoted uncritically by America’s leading newspapers. The documentary also explores related efforts by government to breed a better race in America through the imposition of “eugenics.” Finally, the documentary tells how independent-minded people of faith challenged these abuses of human dignity and freedom.

Dr. Peterson calls it "a must-see" and "very, very relevant today."

I intend to watch it with my family for family home evening. I haven't looked forward to a movie this much since my ward sponsored a highly enjoyable Saturday night screening (complete with soft seats, loads of buttery popcorn and six (!) varieties of cotton candy, and Fresca and Fanta on tap) of "The Biology of the Second Reich: Social Darwinism and the Origins of World War 1" (Discovery Institute), which, incidentally, Dr. Peterson also highly recommended, describing it as "a fascinating venture into an aspect of intellectual history with which I was unfamiliar."


Last edited by Tom on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:50 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
Some book or other from some sorta journalist or other that says Darwin was been refuted, and has outlived its usefulness. Dr. Peterson says he wants serious discussion from only those who HAVE read the book, and is WILLING to engage IT, not using some review or other imagining ourselves as quaint experts and dismissing this review of Darwin on religious grounds. Gee, would that he would do that with Ritner on the Book of Abraham eh? :rolleyes:

Sooooo, have any of you read this particular book Peterson mentions? I haven't, but I might. Right now I am swamped with learning how to watercolor paint and am thoroughly and hedonistically enjoying my life, and getting on with an item on my bucket list. And I am told I am gettin decent, and I have only painted 4 paintings thus far! Come check me out on Instagram...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... cards.html



I'm actually quite surprised that Peterson would be willing to further undermine what little reputation he has remaining by hitching it to this wagon. Does he really think that by linking his name to a book that purports to demolish Darwin's theory of Evolution he is somehow improving his public image? Message to Dr. Peterson....Evolution is a fact...doubt it? Go talk to your colleague's over in the BYU biology department, I'm sure that they would be more than happy to enlighten you.


DCP is not appealing to people who are truly interested in science or scientifically literate to any real degree. For Christ's sakes, Mormons think Lynn Hilton is a cosmologist and archaeologist. Offering them recycled pap from the DI is hardly different than Joseph Fielding Smith recycling the creationist crap of the Seventh Day Adventists and Baptists. I'm sure he'll sell books, especially to those who are tired of liberal academic and intellectual elites demonstrating superior knowledge. :lol:

DCP's deconstruction and refutation of Western Science will be a good companion to our future governor, Jason Chaffetz's opus in progress, deconstructing the Deep State and refutation of Western Government. If we could only find a way to make "theodemocracy" sound like "Republican".... :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:09 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Gadianton wrote:

You cannot say anything about the boy who cried wolf because they just do not get it, and if you do a thorough review they won't read it or even care, they are just sitting back and letting you tire yourself out. So in that sense, yeah, they want you to read it because it is a waste of your time and it doesn't hurt them one way or another.


Dean Robbers--

You are, of course, correct. As always. I am curious about your last observation, though:

"it doesn't hurt them one way or another."

It seems to me that there is a learning opportunity here: a chance for the faculty and students of Cassius to learn at the feet of the Dean. What, to your mind, constitutes "hurt" for the Mopologists?

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"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:10 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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MrStakhanovite wrote:
DCP wrote:
I don't like to ban people


I beg to differ:

Image


Mr. Stak:

I think it's unfortunate you were banned. Still, were you ever able to somehow obtain an answer to your question?

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"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: Peterson Challenges Everyone to Read THIS book!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Gad
You cannot say anything about the boy who cried wolf because they just do not get it, and if you do a thorough review they won't read it or even care, they are just sitting back and letting you tire yourself out. So in that sense, yeah, they want you to read it because it is a waste of your time and it doesn't hurt them one way or another.


An excellent summary. I actually DID tire myself out, but not in the way the Mopologists were hoping. Now it just doesn't really matter all that much what they say or think, yet in some respects it does, and periodically, I find myself feeling I need to respond to some of their stuff. But life is so adventurous and interesting now that I don't feel guilted into spending every waking and sleeping moment attempting to make sense and defend the nonsense of Mormonism. I am astounded how much more broad, interesting, and fun it all is!

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"The problem is most religions proceed to try and explain the truth and then insist that you agree with their explanation." Brad Warner


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