It is currently Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:28 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 396 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 19  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:12 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5122
Water Dog wrote:
Price of tea in china? You know what else members do, watch porn! I said in my first post about this that old habits die hard. Doesn't change the objective fact that the leadership is trying to rid the culture of this behavior, which is the point...

Actually, in your first post in this thread, you said this, which really makes me doubt you are objectively considering the situation:
Water Dog wrote:
And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46320&p=1060067&view=show#p1060067
That's quite an assumption to make, "probably."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:04 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:14 am
Posts: 1994
Water Dog wrote:
All we can do is look at the evidence and make our own judgement. I'll agree to disagree. To be clear though, I'm not suggesting some grand conspiracy theory. What happened happened. My response is more along the lines of a big eye roll. This is no different then Dehlin and his candlelight vigils. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my agreeing or disagreeing with the contents of her little speech. I'm simply rolling my eyes. Ok there Rosa Parks, you sure showed them (insert eye roll).

It's just r*******.

Everybody in exmo internet is sucking each other off over this thing, meanwhile the TBMs don't give a ____. Nor should they. Because, again, it's literally r*******. A little girl got up and said some things which common sense should have told her, and especially her parents, were completely inappropriate for the audience, she very very predictabley got politely asked to sit down - big deal - where's the fire? And instead of just not going to church anymore, lol, of course, let's post it on the internet! How convenient that a video was made. It wasn't made for this purpose though, no way, we just wanted to capture a memory of our Little Wonder Woman. But it sure is convenient though, isn't it, yes, please slap our 12 year old daughters face and name all over the ____ internet.


I'm honestly quite shocked by your response. I get that TBMs won't register this. Hell, they don't register anything beyond what they read on KSL and even that's a stretch sometimes. But surely you've been around long enough to know some Mormons are in fact trying to change the culture from within. It's not as simple as "why don't they stop going to church" for some people. Some people do in fact feel a mission to change the culture from within. I personally agree with you that it's a waste of time, and more often than not, people like this do eventually get to that point and leave. But, some try and take a stab at it thinking they can make a difference. When they realize the church doesn't give two ____, they'll leave and fade from the memories of the TBMs.

Call her Rosa Parks all you want. I like the Rosa Parks of the world because they create events like this to evaluate our cultures and societies. Saying it's r******* seems a bit extreme and I'm not sure why taking it out on a little girl, coached or not, seems appropriate to you. But, whatevs. If it makes you feel better to pick on little girls, go for it.

_________________
I'm a Mormon. I self identify as such.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:30 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 11371
Sanctorian wrote:
Call her Rosa Parks all you want. I like the Rosa Parks of the world because they create events like this to evaluate our cultures and societies. Saying it's r******* seems a bit extreme and I'm not sure why taking it out on a little girl, coached or not, seems appropriate to you. But, whatevs. If it makes you feel better to pick on little girls, go for it.


1) Please don't infantalize the girl. White Knighting her only disempowers her. She knew exactly what she was doing and that takes balls.

2) I don't think Water Dog is picking on the girl, but rather he's calling out the parents for staging this and then politicizing it, and the circle jerking ex-mo's who virtue signal each other breathlessly how this 'innocent' girl was shut down by the Evil Mormon Bishop. On this point I agree with him. I think this was a deliberate political act by the Gay kid and, probably moreso, her parents.

3) Using Rosa Parks is actually appropriate since the bus incident was a staged act meant to maximize political outrage and secure media attention. There are similarities here.

I think Water Dog makes some valid points that are based in common sense. I do find it interesting, though, that for an apostate he sure does rush to the Church's defense an awful lot and he certainly does try to invalidate a lot of non-faithful points of view as witnessed on this thread. Everyone's faith transition is different, and his is an interesting one.

- Doc

_________________
In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:59 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 11467
Location: On the imaginary axis
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I think this was a deliberate political act by the Gay kid and, probably moreso, her parents.

3) Using Rosa Parks is actually appropriate since the bus incident was a staged act meant to maximize political outrage and secure media attention. There are similarities here.


Maybe so. And if so, I would not wish to discourage them from continuing to do so.

I happen to think, by the way, that if Rosa Parks and her friends deliberately picked a favorable moment to start fighting their particular battle, they were doing the right thing. People in the US have been performing 'staged acts meant to maximize political outrage and secure media attention' since the before the War of Independence. It what you have to do if you want to win a fight against well-entrenched power structures.

Similarly, I have no problem with deliberately provocative (though perfectly politely worded) statements like this one being made in sacrament meeting by an LDS girl who already sees herself as lesbian, acting with the support and encouragement of her parents. What else is she supposed to do, wait patiently till the church decides it was wrong? How did that work out for black LDS, by the way?

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:46 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:14 am
Posts: 1994
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

1) Please don't infantalize the girl. White Knighting her only disempowers her. She knew exactly what she was doing and that takes balls.


Agreed

Quote:
2) I don't think Water Dog is picking on the girl, but rather he's calling out the parents for staging this and then politicizing it, and the circle jerking ex-mo's who virtue signal each other breathlessly how this 'innocent' girl was shut down by the Evil Mormon Bishop. On this point I agree with him. I think this was a deliberate political act by the Gay kid and, probably moreso, her parents.


Agreed. However, from what I've read, the girl has claimed the desire to be an advocate for LGBT youth which was one of her motivating factors for this "stunt". It was clearly thought out and deliberate. The girl and her parents do not deny as much. I still think the "unknown" was the bishop turning off the mic. Had that not happened, no one would have cared to the extent it is now being discussed. I still do not believe they had any indication that would happen and this would be more than a 'local' event for their small movement. The bishop turning off the mic was the defining moment IMO. The girl and her parents knew the actions they were taking but, from what I can tell, they did not know he would do that and it would go viral. Deep down maybe they were secretly hoping it would. IDK. I do know everyone seems to be skipping over the part the girl stated she wanted to do this in case there was a youth in her ward that was secretly gay. She wanted to show that person they had a voice. Beyond that, everything seems to be speculation. Calling it r******* seems a bit extreme.

_________________
I'm a Mormon. I self identify as such.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:57 am 
Star B

Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:39 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Logan, UT
moksha wrote:
Seems to me that the Church policy truly has its roots in the hatred against homosexuality that was part of the Church's eldest leaders generation. This same hatred has not consumed younger generations in the Church and twisted their thoughts in such a way as to believe the root of that hatred emanates from God.

The policy stems from the hatred of old men and it sullies all other benevolent Church doctrines to be included with it.

Apologists might deny that this Church policy poop stinks, but that does not preclude it from being odorific.
Image
Well done, Penguin!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:26 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 4768
Location: The Land of Lorn
What's the big deal? It gets done all the time, even in Congress...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEtk14KMpWs

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:10 am
Posts: 2042
Lemmie wrote:
Water Dog wrote:
Price of tea in china? You know what else members do, watch porn! I said in my first post about this that old habits die hard. Doesn't change the objective fact that the leadership is trying to rid the culture of this behavior, which is the point...

Actually, in your first post in this thread, you said this...

Note that I said "in my first post about this," not "in my first post in this thread."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:30 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:10 am
Posts: 2042
Sanctorian wrote:
I'm honestly quite shocked by your response. I get that TBMs won't register this. Hell, they don't register anything beyond what they read on KSL and even that's a stretch sometimes. But surely you've been around long enough to know some Mormons are in fact trying to change the culture from within. It's not as simple as "why don't they stop going to church" for some people.

Sure, but I think it's an act in futility, and counter-productive at that. There's a lot to unpack here.

From the perspective of these parents and the kid, it's not going to end well for them. What are they hoping to accomplish? Change the culture of the church? Good luck with that, but either way, what does this do for them? Plus, in principle using a kid to wage a political war rubs me the wrong way. I'm highly skeptical of the parents and their motives. And it also strikes me as truly bizarre that a 12-year-old would be involved in sexual politics. Very inappropriate. Even if the kid doesn't think so, the parents should have the sense to reign that in. From the behavior of the parents however, the conclusion is that they are ultimately the ones behind all this. And that causes me to question all of it. It makes me wonder if this girl is really "gay" or whether the parents are just really caught up in this whole modern progressive fad and they put those ideas into their kids head. Maybe the kid really is gay. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud here. There are a lot of kids getting pushed in all sorts of unhealthy directions by their hyper-opinionated parents... and I'm seeing a lot of red flags with this.

Putting all this aside though, I am of the opinion that the church has a right to be left alone. I may not agree with them, but in my opinion they have a right to protect, preserve, and police their culture. I'm not into this social shaming victimhood culture thing where mobs of babies run around with the entitled expectation that their every desire should be catered to, that the whole world should be transformed into a borderless safe space. Ok, so the church disagrees with gay marriage and homosexual relationships. Get over it. Don't like it, yes, leave. I don't agree with trying to "change" the church. It's not possible to compel change within the church anymore than it's possible to compel an individual to change. The church will either change on its own or it won't. Behavior like this only reinforces the persecution complex and ultimately causes the church to become more insular and more rigid in its thinking. Plus, let's put this all in context. The church is a tiny organization. This isn't like being a black person in the 1950s. Not even close. It's in insult to those who had to endure true suffering in times past, civil rights movement, women's suffrage, etc., all that stuff in the history books, comparing that stuff with a gay kid in the modern LDS church in 2017 is an absolute outrage. There is a huge world out there of people who aren't Mormon! Literally just walk across the street, hop on facebook, it takes no more than a mouse click to find a completely different social group that will accept you. So in that context, what is the point of agitating within the church? Agitating for what? For freedom? It already exists, walk out the door you dope.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:34 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5122
Water Dog wrote:
Price of tea in china? You know what else members do, watch porn! I said in my first post about this that old habits die hard. Doesn't change the objective fact that the leadership is trying to rid the culture of this behavior, which is the point...

Lemmie wrote:
Actually, in your first post in this thread, you said this, which really makes me doubt you are objectively considering the situation:
Water Dog wrote:
And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46320&p=1060067&view=show#p1060067
That's quite an assumption to make, "probably."

Water Dog wrote:
Note that I said "in my first post about this," not "in my first post in this thread."

Who said you didn't? What's your point?

My point was that in your first post on this thread you made the following assumption about the girl's family that weakened your subsequent arguments:
Water Dog, first post in this thread, wrote:
And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:37 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 11371
Sanctorian wrote:
IDK. I do know everyone seems to be skipping over the part the girl stated she wanted to do this in case there was a youth in her ward that was secretly gay. She wanted to show that person they had a voice.


This is a hugely important point you made. Maybe more importantly, what if there was an adult there that needed to hear that? Perhaps a Gay adult?

We had an adult homosexual commit suicide in my home Ward back in the 80's. He was a sweet man who fostered kids, but lived alone. Then one Sunday he wasn't there any more...

- Doc

_________________
In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:48 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5122
Water Dog wrote:
Plus, let's put this all in context. The church is a tiny organization. This isn't like being a black person in the 1950s. Not even close. It's in insult to those who had to endure true suffering in times past, civil rights movement, women's suffrage, etc., all that stuff in the history books, comparing that stuff with a gay kid in the modern LDS church in 2017 is an absolute outrage. There is a huge world out there of people who aren't Mormon! Literally just walk across the street, hop on facebook, it takes no more than a mouse click to find a completely different social group that will accept you. So in that context, what is the point of agitating within the church? Agitating for what? For freedom? It already exists, walk out the door you dope.

This is an interesting perspective, one you have but one which I doubt a 12 year old would have, nor apparently many others.
Doc CamNC4Me wrote:
We had an adult homosexual commit suicide in my home Ward back in the 80's. He was a sweet man who fostered kids, but lived alone. Then one Sunday he wasn't there any more...

How do you explain to a suicidal gay youth, since birth surrounded and brainwashed by the culture of the church, feeling their life is so full of sin that they have no other option than to kill themselves, "buck up, sissypants, Water Dog says 'being a black person in the 1950s' was way worse." ??

I also think your advice to "walk out the door, you dope," is particularly thoughtless, given the multitude of stories people have told here of family relationships that are severely, some irrevocably damaged by "walk[ing] out the door."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:56 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:10 am
Posts: 2042
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sanctorian wrote:
IDK. I do know everyone seems to be skipping over the part the girl stated she wanted to do this in case there was a youth in her ward that was secretly gay. She wanted to show that person they had a voice.


This is a hugely important point you made. Maybe more importantly, what if there was an adult there that needed to hear that? Perhaps a Gay adult?

We had an adult homosexual commit suicide in my home Ward back in the 80's. He was a sweet man who fostered kids, but lived alone. Then one Sunday he wasn't there any more...

- Doc

Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association. Because this was not an example of good behavior that is worth following. Hanging around in an organization you completely disagree with, one that is even abusive to your kids, purely for the purpose of acting like a kind of spy and agitating for regime change, etc., this is an act of hostility. People in the church are not inspired by this behavior, they are insulted by it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:31 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5122
Water Dog wrote:
Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association.

What utter nonsense. Your cause and effect statements are meaningless. The 12-year-old did NOT give kids "a reason to despair," that reason was already there. The event didn't CAUSE a "closet gay kid" to hear "parents talk trash." This situation did NOT give "people negative things to talk about," those issues were already there.

Your arguments are becoming illogical in the extreme. It sounds like you are suggesting that if people just wouldn't talk about the negative things, then the negative things wouldn't have impact? That's nonsensical.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:45 pm 
Stake High Council

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 pm
Posts: 547
Sanctorian wrote:
Water Dog wrote:
All we can do is look at the evidence and make our own judgement. I'll agree to disagree. To be clear though, I'm not suggesting some grand conspiracy theory. What happened happened. My response is more along the lines of a big eye roll. This is no different then Dehlin and his candlelight vigils. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my agreeing or disagreeing with the contents of her little speech. I'm simply rolling my eyes. Ok there Rosa Parks, you sure showed them (insert eye roll).

It's just r*******.

Everybody in exmo internet is sucking each other off over this thing, meanwhile the TBMs don't give a ____. Nor should they. Because, again, it's literally r*******. A little girl got up and said some things which common sense should have told her, and especially her parents, were completely inappropriate for the audience, she very very predictabley got politely asked to sit down - big deal - where's the fire? And instead of just not going to church anymore, lol, of course, let's post it on the internet! How convenient that a video was made. It wasn't made for this purpose though, no way, we just wanted to capture a memory of our Little Wonder Woman. But it sure is convenient though, isn't it, yes, please slap our 12 year old daughters face and name all over the ____ internet.


I'm honestly quite shocked by your response. I get that TBMs won't register this. Hell, they don't register anything beyond what they read on KSL and even that's a stretch sometimes. But surely you've been around long enough to know some Mormons are in fact trying to change the culture from within. It's not as simple as "why don't they stop going to church" for some people. Some people do in fact feel a mission to change the culture from within. I personally agree with you that it's a waste of time, and more often than not, people like this do eventually get to that point and leave. But, some try and take a stab at it thinking they can make a difference. When they realize the church doesn't give two ____, they'll leave and fade from the memories of the TBMs.

Call her Rosa Parks all you want. I like the Rosa Parks of the world because they create events like this to evaluate our cultures and societies. Saying it's r******* seems a bit extreme and I'm not sure why taking it out on a little girl, coached or not, seems appropriate to you. But, whatevs. If it makes you feel better to pick on little girls, go for it.
Wishing I could rep this post. I so agree. Edited to add that you guys haven't seen anything like Scott Lloyd's response on this on MD&D...It is astounding!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:12 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 11371
Water Dog wrote:
Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association. Because this was not an example of good behavior that is worth following. Hanging around in an organization you completely disagree with, one that is even abusive to your kids, purely for the purpose of acting like a kind of spy and agitating for regime change, etc., this is an act of hostility. People in the church are not inspired by this behavior, they are insulted by it.


Can you explain to me how dependents are just going to walk out the door?

- Doc

_________________
In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:45 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 24205
Location: Off the Deep End
Lemmie wrote:
Water Dog wrote:
Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association.

What utter nonsense. Your cause and effect statements are meaningless. The 12-year-old did NOT give kids "a reason to despair," that reason was already there. The event didn't CAUSE a "closet gay kid" to hear "parents talk trash." This situation did NOT give "people negative things to talk about," those issues were already there.

Your arguments are becoming illogical in the extreme. It sounds like you are suggesting that if people just wouldn't talk about the negative things, then the negative things wouldn't have impact? That's nonsensical.


Rather than reason to despair, her efforts may actually have given some youth there a reason to open a dialogue with their loved ones or adults a reason to dialogue with their children and each other.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:28 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 17388
Location: Koloburbia
Did you know that an analog to this discussion has been going on 28 pages at the Great and Specious Board and the thread had not been shut down. I do think at least one advocate for the young girl had been banned, but that is not unexpected.

Even FAIRMormon has issued a position paper in favor of turning off the microphone for young Savanah's testimony. Guess a video shining a light on LDS policy can do that.

Cinepro asked the question of whether this Beehive girl has been excommunicated yet. I imagine that question is under discussion at her local Stake level and perhaps it has already received promptings from Elder Oaks. Can't imagine any excommunication happening until the news dies down. Since this is an interesting story, hopefully, we will hear what develops. My guess is that she will be made to feel so unwelcome that she might voluntarily resign. Rosa Parks chose to leave Alabama and move to Detroit after the boycott. Maybe Motor City could provide some safety and love for young Savanah too.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:04 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 11371
For a Church that proclaims free agency, dialogue, and invites examination it sure does love to shut ____ down every chance it gets when it doesn't go their way. For people who mew on and on about the Church being left alone it sure doesn't fly when it won't leave others alone.

Again. Water Dog explain to me how dependents are just going to walk out the door?

The Church is an absolutist organization and only the façade of freedom or choice or agency exists. They demonstrate this over and over again. It's about securing the future of some nepotistic families and their connected friends. It's always been that way, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. To cede control over the people would result in their disempowerment.

- Doc

_________________
In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:13 am 
1st Counselor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:46 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Peacekeeper Territories
All I know is that I mentioned this girl and her testimony to my wife on Friday (she hadn't heard anything about it), but by Sunday, she said her Facebook was lit up with controversy surrounding it from members she is still in contact with and family etc. She said about half were defending the church and about half were sympathetic to the girl. So its definitely getting people talking.

After listening and reading the full transcript of the testimony, it was relatively benign. Compared to all the dumb ____ I've heard over the years in F&T meeting, it was nothing. We used to have a schizophrenic drug addict get up every month and just ramble for 20 minutes about crazy random things.............stuff you couldn't even mumble Amen to.........and no one ever got up to tell that dude to sit down.

_________________
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:53 am 
Valiant A

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:13 pm
Posts: 163
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Water Dog,

Your use of 'leaving the church but can't leave it alone' canard isn't applicable to the context of the discussion. You again failed to make your statement make any sense within the confines of the discussion.

Also, I call buuuuuuuuuuuuull ____ on the kids not being allowed to bare their testimonies. The Ward near us does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. My BIL's Ward does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. I attended church in Korea in 2014 and 2015 a few times and the kids were being coached both F&T's I was there.

You. Are. Full of it.

- Doc


I've heard local leaders discourage parents from whispering into a kid's ear during F&T meeting. I also vaguely recall some letter (perhaps First Presidency) being read over the pulpit about proper F&T meeting testimony etiquette. I've never seen this enforced, though.

And regardless, I think there are two distinctions:

1. Even if discouraged in F&T meeting, it's not discouraged elsewhere. In fact, Primary will sometimes have its own testimony meeting, and when dealing with little kids, coaching is inevitable if not impossible.

2. That this girl prepared her testimony in advance and sought input from close family members is not the same as a parent whispering into a kid's ear what to say. Not even close. I remember with my wife's grandmother passed away, her dad and uncle sought input from each other and others when writing their eulogies. What they ended up saying, however, was their words, and it would have been absurd to think that they had been somehow manipulated.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 396 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 19  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group