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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:58 am 
God
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I agree it's unbecoming to secretly record someone knowing you're setting them up for failure. It's awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:07 am 
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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
SOMEONE, please, ANYONE, contact Peggy at SL Trib with this???


This piece of ____ coward must be brought out and lashed to the public flag pole and given a good ass kicking.


Maybe the ass kicking could be part of the undercard for the upcoming mayweather macgregor fight they're negotiating? I know I'd pay to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:14 am 
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I am not comfortable with the recording.

I am not cool with the smear.

But I am wondering whether there is some grain of truth even in the smear.

It is being presented as an out-and-out fabrication.

If it is, it is.

But usually these types of things get started somewhere.

And have at least some basis in fact.

Whether Jeremy's mother said something similar but different.

Or whether it was Jeremy's mother or his grandmother.

Just some thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:16 am 
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Chap wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:
This is a tragedy of the collective leadership's making. It is hard to feel at all bad for them.

That said, I would not have done what John Dehlin and Trevor did.


Given the pitilessly clear light that this recording has shone on the nature of the leadership culture of the CoJCoLDS (which claims, let us recall, to be God's only true church on earth). I am glad that this recording has been made public.

It is clear that the leaders feel that if someone is, in their eyes, damaging the church, then no moral restraints whatsoever are required. Repeat completely unsubstantiated rumours about a critic's supposedly dead mother in order to smear an opponent? Yeah, Jesus's very own church is cool with that.

OK, so I'm cool with putting that out online, even thought I don't claim to be working for Jesus.


Joseph Smith had no qualms about having Nancy Rigdon's, Martha Brotherton's, and Sarah Pratt's names dragged through the mud. :rolleyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Jeremy's grandFATHER died recently. But that was three years after the CES Letter was published. There is no "grain" of truth to ANY rumors regarding his mother. It is an out and out fabrication.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:19 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Jeremy's grandFATHER died recently. But that was three years after the CES Letter was published. There is no "grain" of truth to ANY rumors regarding his mother. It is an out and out fabrication.

Thanks for the info, grindael. Its frustrating to hear an argument that because a rumor exists, there must have been some basis for it somewhere.

snopes commenter, on the idea that all rumors have a basis in fact, wrote:
"...and where there's smoke there's fire."

"Not when somebody's deliberately set off a smoke bomb."

snopes.com

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?p=1915318

It would be interesting to track down who set off the smoke bomb in this case.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:38 pm 
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These General Authorities are supposed to have DISCERNMENT. They constantly brag about it. So why would they repeat unfounded rumors as if it is fact. He went on and on about how bad Jeremy was because he had no respect for his own mother. I mean, he went on and on about it. And this was one of (almost the only one) his complaints against Jeremy. And he then put forth ANOTHER stupid thing, that Jeremy was asking for FOLLOWERS in the CES Letter. He was not. Never did. Search it. There is NOTHING THERE about FOLLOWING him ANYWHERE. He is not the head of some mystical "Anti-Mormon" RELIGION. Jeremy is an avowed Agnotic/Atheist. I have this from his own lips. He could care less about getting "followers". Clarke just made that ____ up also. He made up EVERYTHING about Jeremy.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:12 pm 
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I a thinking that Dehlin might know more??


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:04 pm 
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I really don't see what the LDS Church or Joseph Smith have to do with our individual moral and ethical choices. They can be as corrupt as the day is long and that does not give me license to act poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:13 pm 
God
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Well, Jeremy's mother will die someday, and then the church can say that Jeremy ignored his mother's dying wish. They just unleashed that rumor too soon. Oops. I also think it's hilarious that that's their rebuttal to the CES Letter.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I really don't see what the LDS Church or Joseph Smith have to do with our individual moral and ethical choices. They can be as corrupt as the day is long and that does not give me license to act poorly.

I'm not sure what part of this thread your comment is responding to, could you clarify?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
I'm not sure what part of this thread your comment is responding to, could you clarify?


The statement stands on its own. It is my feeling about the proper response to the unethical and immoral acts of others. I don't agree that the bad behavior of the LDS Church or the bad behavior of Joseph Smith justify our bad behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:15 pm 
God

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Kishkumen wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
I'm not sure what part of this thread your comment is responding to, could you clarify?


The statement stands on its own. It is my feeling about the proper response to the unethical and immoral acts of others. I don't agree that the bad behavior of the LDS Church or the bad behavior of Joseph Smith justify our bad behavior.

No argument there. Due to the thread title I wasn't sure if you meant Jeremy Runnels had done something wrong or not, but as a stand alone sentence I would agree wholeheartedly.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Chap wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:
This is a tragedy of the collective leadership's making. It is hard to feel at all bad for them.

That said, I would not have done what John Dehlin and Trevor did.


Given the pitilessly clear light that this recording has shone on the nature of the leadership culture of the CoJCoLDS (which claims, let us recall, to be God's only true church on earth). I am glad that this recording has been made public.

It is clear that the leaders feel that if someone is, in their eyes, damaging the church, then no moral restraints whatsoever are required. Repeat completely unsubstantiated rumours about a critic's supposedly dead mother in order to smear an opponent? Yeah, Jesus's very own church is cool with that.

OK, so I'm cool with putting that out online, even thought I don't claim to be working for Jesus.

Set up or not, Clarke said what he did. The recording just takes away room to wriggle out of his owning his words. I don't know where the misinformation started, or how innocently it was started or inflated, but it was false. Clarke was willing to repeat it without checking, in order to discredit Runnells because he had had the audacity to question, make queries and state his findings and conclusions. Human beings generally allow some latitude for 'situational statements', like Trump to Billy Bush, 'grab 'em by the p____' even when a recording is replayed. This is not 1974 anymore; an 18 1/2 minutes gap would not be viewed today with as much suspicion.

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"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:26 pm 
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candygal wrote:
I a thinking that Dehlin might know more??


About where this unfounded allegation came from? Perhaps. But Jeremy is a good friend of mine and I discussed it with him and he unequivocally said that he made no such statement relating to ANYONE, and he told me that he adamantly is opposed to having any FOLLOWERS. He is not leading anyone anywhere except if you ascribe to him the concept of leading people to read more and to make their own decisions. In fact, at the end of the CES letter (search it for the word follow and see what you find), it says,

Quote:
The past year was the worst year of my life. I experienced a betrayal, loss, and sadness unlike anything I’ve ever known. “Do what is right; let the consequence follow” now holds a completely different meaning for me. I desperately searched for answers to all of the problems. To me, the answer eventually came but it was not what I expected…or hoped for.


There is no admonition for anyone to FOLLOW him in his own personal decision to leave the church. He does claim that following men who make ridiculous statements is kind of mind boggling and that he would not want his children to do so:

Quote:
Why would I want my kids singing “Follow the Prophet” with such a ridiculous 183-year track record? What credibility do the Brethren have? Why would I want them following the prophet when a prophet is just a man of his time teaching his “theories” that will likely be disavowed by future Prophets, Seers, and Revelators? If his moral blueprint is not much better than their Sunday School teachers? If, historically speaking, the doctrine he teaches today will likely be tomorrow’s false doctrine?


But here he stops. He does not claim to have a better way. Does not claim that if you follow him, he will be able to help you with God. He is not seeking followers so he can be some kind of Anti-Mormon Church leader. That is so ridiculous that I find it offensive that Clarke would make that up. Jeremy is seeking an audience to listen to what he has prepared and then to go and make up their own minds.

Clarke is a liar. Jeremy did not claim what Clarke said he did.

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"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:25 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
No argument there. Due to the thread title I wasn't sure if you meant Jeremy Runnels had done something wrong or not, but as a stand alone sentence I would agree wholeheartedly.


What did Jeremy do that was wrong? I am not aware of anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:14 am 
God

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Kishkumen wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
No argument there. Due to the thread title I wasn't sure if you meant Jeremy Runnels had done something wrong or not, but as a stand alone sentence I would agree wholeheartedly.


What did Jeremy do that was wrong? I am not aware of anything.

Not a thing! It was not clear to me the context in which you were making your statement:
Kishkumen in his initial post wrote:
I really don't see what the LDS Church or Joseph Smith have to do with our individual moral and ethical choices. They can be as corrupt as the day is long and that does not give me license to act poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:56 pm 
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And people wonder why church leaders are so hesitant to speak to everyday members? Why disaffected Mormons have such a small chance of getting their ears?

We push them away and then get angry at them for their animosity towards us.

Sometimes progressive Mormoms are like a group of angry spoiled children who can't wait to find rocks to throw at the adults' glass houses (forgetting their own) so they can make a big noise and watch the crash. We'd be a lot better off if the progressive Mormon children would grow into adults too.

What good does this do and for whom? What harm does it do and to whom?

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Last edited by Rosebud on Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:08 pm 
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And Clarke isn't even the one who published the slander.......

The children's whole point was to slander Clarke.

What a mess.

Little boys.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:40 pm 
God

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Rosebud wrote:
And Clarke isn't even the one who published the slander.......

The children's whole point was to slander Clarke.

What a mess.

Little boys.

How does publishing Clarke's own words constitute a plan to slander Clarke?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Runnells Statement: Clarke LIED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:44 pm 
God
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Lemmie wrote:
Rosebud wrote:
And Clarke isn't even the one who published the slander.......

The children's whole point was to slander Clarke.

What a mess.

Little boys.

How does publishing Clarke's own words constitute a plan to slander Clarke?


Did I read the OP wrong? It's appears to have been more or less a sting operation to embarrass the Church. Which, admittedly, Mr. Clarke facilitated by being a dumb ass.

- Doc

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